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PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
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kingston
If I may ask, was it Pete and his government that removed regulations? My memory fails me, who was it that removed the regulations?
It was the previous administration that removed the regulations but the fact is the old regulations would not have prevented this accident anyways.
This line of arguement is missinfirmation.
The cause of the accident was an overheated wheel bearing, nothing to do with the braking system.
Was it preventable? Yes, according to investigators, but current or removed regulations would not have prevented the wreck.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/23/us/ohio-train-derailment-east-palestine-thursday/index.html
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
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It was the previous administration that removed the regulations but the fact is the old regulations would not have prevented this accident anyways.
This line of arguement is missinfirmation.
The cause of the accident was an overheated wheel bearing, nothing to do with the braking system.
Was it preventable? Yes, according to investigators, but current or removed regulations would not have prevented the wreck.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/23/us/ohio-train-derailment-east-palestine-thursday/index.html
Pete, stop it!!! You ruined my Butler gotcha party!!! :mad:
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,989
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If I may ask, was it Pete and his government that removed regulations? My memory fails me, who was it that removed the regulations?
It started under Obama and was voted through bypartisan. It was continued under Trump. And the last labor contract which screwed the workers was done before the house change over under Biden.

Thats the reality. Both parties.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,989
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It was the previous administration that removed the regulations but the fact is the old regulations would not have prevented this accident anyways.
This line of arguement is missinfirmation.
The cause of the accident was an overheated wheel bearing, nothing to do with the braking system.
Was it preventable? Yes, according to investigators, but current or removed regulations would not have prevented the wreck.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/23/us/ohio-train-derailment-east-palestine-thursday/index.html
The regulations were cut also under Obama. Continued under Trump, and then not fixed under Biden. As for the regulations usecare being disingenuous. There is a lack of regulation of maintenance and of improving safety standards. The trains still use 1930's tech and should have been ordered to upgrade. Instead the railway lobbied not to and this was bypartisan approved.

And that same railway did TEN BILLION in stocks buybacks. Out of twelve billion in profit.

My point stands. The govt for decades under both parties have allowed the railway companies to neglect and reduce safety standards for profit. And Pete is towing that line.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,989
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Pete, stop it!!! You ruined my Butler gotcha party!!! :mad:
See my above post. And stop being stupid. This isnt a party issue. Its systemic corruption and neglect by both sides, that hurt people and the environment.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
22,892
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See my above post. And stop being stupid. This isnt a party issue. Its systemic corruption and neglect by both sides, that hurt people and the environment.
Fact check and on who is actually being stupid.

Please do not compare what Obama did with what the Trump administration did.

 

dirtydaveiii

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2018
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Actually in the case of Pete he is by far one of the worst secretaries in cabinet and perhaps ranks as one if the worst in the modern era. Between the ports fiasco, the airlines fiascos, and now the trains both in the labor dispute that may have resulted in the recent disaster in East Palestine, he has shown a complete incompetence and moreso an arrogance as Transport Sec that really shows what a disaster as President he would have been.
Complete incompetence arrogant, disaster as president can only be one man : Superdump
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,989
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Fact check and on who is actually being stupid.

Please do not compare what Obama did with what the Trump administration did.

This shows nothing about railways.

I agree Trump deregulated. But he really didn't have to do much. Both parties have been lax in making the trains upgrade. And creating bypartisan laws that allow for easy loopholes, in this case not requiring brake upgrades on "mixed" trains but only ones with absolute dangerous cargo meant an easy work around for the railways. Real change would have siad, you have X number of years to upgrade all trains to these new braking specs, and must implement minimum train crew sizes, and maximum time on trains.

Right now its basically like flying a plane with 1 pilot, who have flown 16 hours already and 30 days in a row, with only one steward on board. Then the airlines want to eliminate the stewart. Thats what is happening.

The latest deal the Biden approved says all train operators must give 30 days notice before they are allowed to apply for a sick day. Think about that.
 

PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
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The regulations were cut also under Obama. Continued under Trump, and then not fixed under Biden. As for the regulations usecare being disingenuous. There is a lack of regulation of maintenance and of improving safety standards. The trains still use 1930's tech and should have been ordered to upgrade. Instead the railway lobbied not to and this was bypartisan approved.

And that same railway did TEN BILLION in stocks buybacks. Out of twelve billion in profit.

My point stands. The govt for decades under both parties have allowed the railway companies to neglect and reduce safety standards for profit. And Pete is towing that line.
Which regulations were cut under Obama?
There was a regulation put in under Obama caled the fast act that contained updated safety measures for rail tansportation.
The Obama-era railroad regulations also included a rule to use freight cars made of special reinforced materials for the transport of oil and hazardous materials. Of the freight cars that derailed earlier this month, three were of the stronger type and were not breached, while one of the freight cars carrying propylene glycol that did not have the enhanced protections was breached.
Here it is.https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/22
Republicans tried to stop it at that time but gave up.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...k-oil-train-safety-rule-idUSKCN0PW2BY20150722
Following the election of President Donald Trump and with Republican majorities in the House and Senate, the rule was indeed scuttled in 2018.
https://theintercept.com/2023/02/21/east-palestine-rail-safety-congress/
Here is the bill.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/1732?q={"search":["thune"]}
Here is the annoucemant from the DOT on the repeal.
Thune voted down a Democratic amendment to nix the delay before moving to a full committee vote.
https://www.commerce.senate.gov/2017/12/thune-statement-on-repeal-of-flawed-train-brake-rule
The repeal was not bypartisan approved.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Which regulations were cut under Obama?
There was a regulation put in under Obama caled the fast act that contained updated safety measures for rail tansportation.
The Obama-era railroad regulations also included a rule to use freight cars made of special reinforced materials for the transport of oil and hazardous materials. Of the freight cars that derailed earlier this month, three were of the stronger type and were not breached, while one of the freight cars carrying propylene glycol that did not have the enhanced protections was breached.
Here it is.https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/22
Republicans tried to stop it at that time but gave up.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...k-oil-train-safety-rule-idUSKCN0PW2BY20150722
Following the election of President Donald Trump and with Republican majorities in the House and Senate, the rule was indeed scuttled in 2018.
https://theintercept.com/2023/02/21/east-palestine-rail-safety-congress/
Here is the bill.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/1732?q={"search":["thune"]}
Here is the annoucemant from the DOT on the repeal.
Thune voted down a Democratic amendment to nix the delay before moving to a full committee vote.
https://www.commerce.senate.gov/2017/12/thune-statement-on-repeal-of-flawed-train-brake-rule
The repeal was not bypartisan approved.
The issue was with braking. And as I said above they allowed a loophole for mixed trains to bypass rules for hazerdous materials to be transported without the same safety regs. Its really simple.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
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The issue was with braking. And as I said above they allowed a loophole for mixed trains to bypass rules for hazerdous materials to be transported without the same safety regs. Its really simple.
What is ridiculous is you trying to include the Obama administration with nonsensical deregulation claims.
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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What is ridiculous is you trying to include the Obama administration with nonsensical deregulation claims.
The claim they added real regulation is what is ridiculous. It was smoke and mirrors. They take lobbyist money too.

This is a govt failure by both parties. And the bickering over who is to blame is exactly what they want. Because then the story is the finger pointing and not actually fixing it.

That is what you are falling for. It isn't right v left. Its rich vs poor.
 

PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
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The issue was with braking. And as I said above they allowed a loophole for mixed trains to bypass rules for hazerdous materials to be transported without the same safety regs. Its really simple.
Do i have to do a review for you after every two posts?
As stated earlier the issue in this derailment was due to an overheated wheel bearing.
The only relation to brakes was the fact they were applied to try to stop the train due to the overheated wheel bearing.
If this train was equipped with the ECP brakes, it still would have derailed.
The overheated wheel bearing was indentified by three trackside sensors and the crew immediatly tried to stop the train, unfortunatly, not soon enough.
 
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PeteOsborne

Kingston recon
Feb 12, 2020
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kingston
The claim they added real regulation is what is ridiculous. It was smoke and mirrors. They take lobbyist money too.

This is a govt failure by both parties. And the bickering over who is to blame is exactly what they want. Because then the story is the finger pointing and not actually fixing it.

That is what you are falling for. It isn't right v left. Its rich vs poor.
The only people bickering about the blame are the ones who haven't read the preliminary report from the NTSB which puts the blame directly on Norfolk Southern’s policy to only stop and inspect a bearing after it has reached 170 degrees above ambient temperature.
The bearing, according to the report, was 38 degrees above ambient temperature when it passed through a hot box 30 miles outside East Palestine. No alert went out, the NTSB said.
Ten miles later, the next hot box detected that the bearing had reached 103 degrees above ambient. Video of the train recorded in that area shows sparks and flames around the rail car. Still, no alert went to the crew.
It wasn’t until a further 10 miles down the tracks, as the train reached East Palestine, that a hot box detector recorded the bearing’s temperature at 253 degrees above ambient and sent an alarm message instructing the crew to slow and stop the train to inspect a hot axle, the report says.
The reason for the bearing failure has yet to be determined.
The NTSB report.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23MR005.aspx
A 2019 report on the use of trackside detecters recommends stopping a train after a 50 degree increase in temperature between sensors located 10 miles apart, it further states that wheel bearing temperature will double in its rate of heating in the next 10 mile stretch making for an extremly hazardous situation.
The 2019 report.
https://www.utrgv.edu/railwaysafety...mechanical/ijrt_wayside-hbd-investigation.pdf
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,989
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Do i have to do a review for you after every two posts?
As stated earlier the issue in this derailment was due to an overheated wheel bearing.
The only relation to brakes was the fact they were applied to try to stop the train due to the overheated wheel bearing.
If this train was equipped with the ECP brakes, it still would have derailed.
The overheated wheel bearing was indentified by three trackside sensors and the crew immediatly tried to stop the train, unfortunatly, not soon enough.
Which means maintenance wasn't kept up, older tech was still in place, and this is due to decades of lack of oversight. And shoddy infrastructure/equipment upgrades.

Its a systemic problem. With both parties taking money from the railways. Add in the lack of response initially, Pete's horrible response(which was my origional point before the apologists tried to derail his part in this), the media taking the Railway's side until on the ground reportage by independent media exposed the problems, and its a cluster fuck.

And deflecting to the partisan blame game does nothing for the people in East Palestine. Try giving a shit about them instead of your personal politics.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Which means maintenance wasn't kept up, older tech was still in place, and this is due to decades of lack of oversight. And shoddy infrastructure/equipment upgrades.
No, its the rail company's personal policy that was the issue, every rail company can set their own policy on how to respond to heat warnings from the hot boxes.
They could have set a policy that said they should stop and check at lower temps, but that would cost them a bit more.
 
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