TRUMP WINS

[The Oracle]

Not as many as you would think during the Biden term.
The illegal immigrant numbers have stayed constant at 11M for over 10 years.
I dont support deporting millions of people just because they are illegal.
It is an extremely cruel thing to do.
If they are paying taxes and contributing and are upstanding members they should not be removed.
What is done is done, pardon them and give them a path to citizenship.
If they are criminals, deport them immediately.

How Biden and Trump compare on border crossings and immigration

Immigration is a top campaign issue amid questions about the pace of illegal border crossings. Here’s what the available data tells us.

www.csmonitor.com

''Bottom line: While we don’t know exactly how many unauthorized immigrants are added to the U.S. population each year, an array of different metrics signals a significant increase under Mr. Biden.''

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Border security also entails eliminating incentives to cross the border. When the progressive Democrats argue that we need to fix the immigration system, they are merely arguing that we need to let more people in legally. Legalize more and you will have less of an illegal immigration problem. Huh?

You eliminate incentives via increasing border security and by providing more avenues to legally immigrate that benefits the nation.
You also eliminate incentives by fixing immigration processes, making them more efficient.
Essentially you disincentivize illegal immigration and incentivize legal immigration.
Your goal is to reduce illegal immigration.
Not to discourage immigration.
Don't conflate them. They are different things.
As for deportations I have already made my views clear.
Non criminals should not be. That is cruel and I will leave it there.

 

[mandrill]

The cultists witnessed in the recent US election surround Kamala Harris.

The DNC anointed beloved by legacy media queen of word salad.

What's fascinating is how someone so unqualified got over 67 million votes.

Someone that belongs as a host on The View has no business negotiating with heads of state from hostile nations.

The guy who talks about "Eating cats" and "Arnie Palmer had a big dick" is your man, huh?

Putin must laugh his tiny ass off when he deals with Dementia Donnie.

 

[mandrill]

How Biden and Trump compare on border crossings and immigration

Immigration is a top campaign issue amid questions about the pace of illegal border crossings. Here’s what the available data tells us.

www.csmonitor.com

''Bottom line: While we don’t know exactly how many unauthorized immigrants are added to the U.S. population each year, an array of different metrics signals a significant increase under Mr. Biden.''

OK, Orry. Since SO has produced his source for figures, why don't you show us your source??.... That's a challenge.

 

[WyattEarp]

You eliminate incentives via increasing border security and by providing more avenues to legally immigrate that benefits the nation.
You also eliminate incentives by fixing immigration processes, making them more efficient.

The Canadian immigration system is very different than the U.S. system. This is in no small part due to mass migration from the Southern border. We have less immigration based on merit factors and ability to contribute. So "benefits the nation" is rhetoric that might apply more to the Canadian situation.

It is my opinion, that the U.S. does not need more low-skilled workers. I don't think that's going to change either. I have mentioned I think many Latino voters also believe this to be true. For many, immigration is an economic issue in their communities.

Your goal is to reduce illegal immigration. Not to discourage immigration.
Don't conflate them. They are different things.

That's not what I am saying. What I am saying is increasing legal immigration does not fix illegal immigration. Perhaps you are not exactly saying the opposite, but it sure sounds like it. We have many progressives who think the problem is merely a matter of documentation.

Again, why can't American and Canadian voters decide the proper amount of immigration? This constant wrangling over legal and illegal immigration doesn't change the fact they want a lower amount of immigration.

 

[WyattEarp]

The guy who talks about "Eating cats" and "Arnie Palmer had a big dick" is your man, huh?

Putin must laugh his tiny ass off when he deals with Dementia Donnie.

I think Trump and Vance got sidetracked by the stupid cats/dogs thing. Some stupid campaign guy pulled some stupid stuff off the internet. It was a dumb moment for them.

Makes you wonder how popular Harris really was beyond the raw results. However, I absolutely do agree with Kamala that bacon is a spice. I tell my Muslim friends that every chance I get.

I'm not sure the Arnie Palmer big dick thing was really a big deal. It made Trump more relatable to many. And FYI he always talked that way.

 

[Dutch Oven]

This election seems like it's been a foregone conclusion for so long, Tuesday night was an anti-climax.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The Canadian immigration system is very different than the U.S. system. This is in no small part due to mass migration from the Southern border. We have less immigration based on merit factors and ability to contribute. So "benefits the nation" is rhetoric that might apply more to the Canadian situation.

It is my opinion, that the U.S. does not need more low-skilled workers. I don't think that's going to change either. I have mentioned I think many Latino voters also believe this to be true. For many, immigration is an economic issue in their communities.

That's not what I am saying. What I am saying is increasing legal immigration does not fix illegal immigration. Perhaps you are not exactly saying the opposite, but it sure sounds like it. We have many progressives who think the problem is merely a matter of documentation.

Again, why can't American and Canadian voters decide the proper amount of immigration? This constant wrangling over legal and illegal immigration doesn't change the fact they want a lower amount of immigration.

"Benefits the nation" is not rhetoric.
Talent scarcity and labour shortages are realities in Canada and the US alike.
So the legal immigration system has to care for that.
Fixing illegal immigration isn't a thing you can do.
Illegal immigration is always going to be there, so the best you can do is reduce it.
You reduce it by fixing the immigration system, so that it prevents visa overstays which is a major source of illegal immigration.
You reduce it by increasing border security to prevent unauthorized entries.
Voters can decide who to vote for, but that is not what we are talking about here.

 

[WyattEarp]

This election seems like it's been a foregone conclusion for so long, Tuesday night was an anti-climax.

It's fun though to see people to continue campaigning on social media. It's like nothing was settled Tuesday. America did not learn anything about what we wanted.

Yeah, Trump's an asshole. We get it. But what does that say about what policies American embraced Tuesday? They had to say something, dontchya think?

I suppose progressives can hold on to the idea that Harris (and Biden before her) simply ran a very bad campaign.

 

[WyattEarp]

"Benefits the nation" is not rhetoric.
Talent scarcity and labour shortages are realities in Canada and the US alike.

The U.S. doesn't currently have talent scarcity and labor shortages. There was brief time after COVID where we witnessed people delay returning to the workforce. Many of our tech companies are currently bloated from overhiring and are shedding personnel.

I can't speak to the situation in Canada. I would hesitate to speak authoritatively about another country. Your knowledge of what is going on the ground in the U.S. should be applauded.

Voters can decide who to vote for, but that is not what we are talking about here.

Yes, that is exactly what we are talking about here. You're not the first person on social media who believed they knew what was best for people and the country. The campaign is over. America decided. For you, nothing was decided.

You're certainly entitled to the opinion that immigration was not a big issue for American voters. I heard otherwise. I know many Democrats (likely Harris voters) who expressed disappointment with Biden's handling of the border.

 

[mandrill]

I think Trump and Vance got sidetracked by the stupid cats/dogs thing. Some stupid campaign guy pulled some stupid stuff off the internet. It was a dumb moment for them.

But your guy made it a centrepiece of his debate. And it was clearly bullshit. Says volumes about what a bullshitter and what a moron he is.

I'm not sure the Arnie Palmer big dick thing was really a big deal. It made Trump more relatable to many. And FYI he always talked that way.

IIRC, Abe Lincoln slipped a half-dozen big dick jokes into the Gettysburg Address as well. Just to be "relatable to many".

 

[mandrill]

It's fun though to see people to continue campaigning on social media. It's like nothing was settled Tuesday. America did not learn anything about what we wanted.

Yeah, Trump's an asshole. We get it. But what does that say about what policies American embraced Tuesday? They had to say something, dontchya think?

I suppose progressives can hold on to the idea that Harris (and Biden before her) simply ran a very bad campaign.

Inflation, dude.

 

[WyattEarp]

IIRC, Abe Lincoln slipped a half-dozen big dick jokes into the Gettysburg Address as well. Just to be "relatable to many".

Gettysburg huh? That seems very comparable.

Anyway, Lincoln and other Presidents could've used salty language in public and we likely wouldn't know. The press coverage was very different. Now they are filmed 24/7.

Anyway, I think you would agree Trump voters are not sensitive to his language nor do they feign sensitivity.

 

[WyattEarp]

Inflation, dude.

Perhaps, but I tend to believe polls that tell me what voters' concerns are. I believe Kamala voters when they say are very concerned about abortion rights across the country.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The U.S. doesn't currently have talent scarcity and labor shortages. There was brief time after COVID where we witnessed people delay returning to the workforce. Many of our tech companies are currently bloated from overhiring and are shedding personnel.

I can't speak to the situation in Canada. I would hesitate to speak authoritatively about another country. Your knowledge of what is going on the ground in the U.S. should be applauded.



Yes, that is exactly what we are talking about here. You're not the first person on social media who believed they knew what was best for people and the country. The campaign is over. America decided. For you, nothing was decided.

You're certainly entitled to the opinion that immigration was not a big issue for American voters. I heard otherwise. I know many Democrats (likely Harris voters) who expressed disappointment with Biden's handling of the border.

Yes the US does have shortages.
Whether you are American or Canadian, living in the country does not give you any insight into labour needs.
We use data from official sources to come to these conclusions.

Understanding America’s Labor Shortage

Workforce participation remains below pre-pandemic levels. We are missing 1.7 million Americans from the workforce compared to February of 2020.

www.uschamber.com

I did not say immigration was not a big issue for voters.
I am saying that Americans dont actually know anything about immigration.
They only form an opinion based on what politicians tell them.
The average citizen lives in a bubble.
We know the election is over and it does not impact those of us here in Canada.
But we are discussing the topic.
You seem to be saying that if you are not American we should not be talking about American issues or that we would know anything about it.

 

[mandrill]

Perhaps, but I tend to believe polls that tell me what voters' concerns are. I believe Kamala voters when they say are very concerned about abortion rights across the country.

Who answers polls?.... People who want to answer polls.

I'm sure that millions of educated, independent women are concerned about abortion rights. I believe that several states' constitutional amendments re abortion rights were passed on Tuesday. But educated, independent women are a minority segment of the electorate. Unfortunately.

 

[mandrill]

Gettysburg huh? That seems very comparable.

Anyway, Lincoln and other Presidents could've used salty language in public and we likely wouldn't know. The press coverage was very different. Now they are filmed 24/7.

Anyway, I think you would agree Trump voters are not sensitive to his language nor do they feign sensitivity.

He said it on stage at a campaign rally.

Now there are famously foul-mouthed US presidents - LBJ, RMN - but they kept to policy or morale-boosting content at rallies. And not observations about other men's dicks.

But then, you're probably going to tell us that Trump is an innovator in this area as well?

 

[WyattEarp]

Yes the US does have shortages.
Whether you are American or Canadian, living in the country does not give you any insight into labour needs.
We use data from official sources to come to these conclusions.

Understanding America’s Labor Shortage

Workforce participation remains below pre-pandemic levels. We are missing 1.7 million Americans from the workforce compared to February of 2020.

www.uschamber.com

I did not say immigration was not a big issue for voters.
I am saying that Americans dont actually know anything about immigration.
They only form an opinion based on what politicians tell them.
The average citizen lives in a bubble.
We know the election is over and it does not impact those of us here in Canada.
But we are discussing the topic.
You seem to be saying that if you are not American we should not be talking about American issues or that we would know anything about it.

I'm saying you speak too authoritatively about how Americans feel, what they know and what is happening on the ground. I think in just a few threads you were covertly saying the election didn't settle anything. Democrats would win in four years. Surely a possibility but not a certainty and certainly not an absolution of the Biden/Harris tenure.

I'm not telling you anything I haven't told a half dozen members. If you are relying on U.S. media for most of your information, you will always be at a disadvantage in trying to understand the United States.

By the way, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has always held a deep bias that we need more workers........predominantly low paid, low-skilled workers. It's a running criticism down here. Did you notice the U.S. Chamber article only discusses net international migration in 2020/2021 when it says it was at the lowest level in decades? Not only do we know migration picked up immensely after COVID, we know very few people were migrating during COVID.

As far as the data, it's very possible that restricting illegal immigration will put pressure on wages and bring back some people to the workforce. Additionally, isn't a low unemployment rate a good thing? All of these things unemployment, wages and immigration have real world impact on each other.

 

[WyattEarp]

You seem to mix accusation of leftist dogma, with right wing dogma.
Just like there are the west coast and north east precincts that pursue DEI, there are some backward precincts in the south such as Texas, Alabama and Florida and some in the mid west such as Nebraska that will walk back DEI initiatives.
Expected behaviour.
I however dont foresee DEI ending completely.

If you think it's right wing dogma to say that DEI is not popular in the U.S., you're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't hold on to this idea very strongly though.

I will tell you that my view is shaped from dealing with people and dealing with businesses. I used the word zeitgeist on another post here. You cannot entirely plug into the American zeitgeist by merely turning on your television and watching American news. It certainly can give you a flavor of things, but living here is far better than just getting information from intermediaries with their own views.

As I said DEI won't end completely, but it won't be a high priority for many institutions. It will be more of an ideal. For about thirty plus years, organizations have tried to hire and promote deserving minorities and women. It the last ten years, some corporations and institutions were aggressively pursuing DEI hiring/advancement which took on quota-like goals. Large institutions built up DEI bureaucracies that not only worked on these goals, they expanded DEI workforce training. This is now being rolled back in many organizations.

As one can expect, private and Blue State public universities will hold on to strong DEI priorities as long as they can stay within the law. You can add Red state governments and many non-for-profit institutions to that as well.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I'm saying you speak too authoritatively about how Americans feel, what they know and what is happening on the ground. I think in just a few threads you were covertly saying the election didn't settle anything. Democrats would win in four years. Surely a possibility but not a certainty and certainly not an absolution of the Biden/Harris tenure.

I'm not telling you anything I haven't told a half dozen members. If you are relying on U.S. media for most of your information, you will always be at a disadvantage in trying to understand the United States.

By the way, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has always held a deep bias that we need more workers........predominantly low paid, low-skilled workers. It's a running criticism down here. Did you notice the U.S. Chamber article only discusses net international migration in 2020/2021 when it says it was at the lowest level in decades? Not only do we know migration picked up immensely after COVID, we know very few people were migrating during COVID.

As far as the data, it's very possible that restricting illegal immigration will put pressure on wages and bring back some people to the workforce. Additionally, isn't a low unemployment rate a good thing? All of these things unemployment, wages and immigration have real world impact on each other.

That Americans generally live in a bubble and get their news from sound bites of the politicians they support isn't a mystery.
So according to you the US media cannot be relied upon.
The US chamber of commerce is biased.
Every other authoritative source is wrong.
But Trump is correct based on nothing at all.
Yes unemployment, wages, immigration do have an impact on each other.
But what is that impact?
There is no guarantee that American citizens would want to do the jobs that illegal immigrants currently do.
You are typing a lot but saying very little.