UK using 'fake boundaries' in Iran dispute - former British envoy

[basketcase]

There is progress from the Israelis was what I said. It's not happening fast but it is happening as more and more people would be happy with peace. The old time warriors are dying off and are being replaced. The settlers (mainly religious) are the other group slowing things down.

As a side note, the P.A. is the title of the government, currently dominated by Hamas. Fatah was Arafat's party and was almost synonymous with the PLO. I would also wonder how Israel is supposed to negotiate with Hamas even if they wanted to. Hamas has repeatedly stated that if Israel gave in to all of the demands (and that is the correct word) from the Arab League, they would only offer Israel 10 years of peace. As far as I could tell, Israel's military wants what every military wants and that is to be needed and powerful. The ultra-zionist settlers are the ones with the same goal as Hamas which is to completely control all of the land (and the groups that promote violent ideas have been made illegal).

I have no problem admitting when Israel is wrong but I get ticked by those that use the attacks to further some kind of agenda and aren't willing to even consider the idea that anyone else could be even slightly in the wrong.

 

[basketcase]

And for you never, here's examples of terrorism and guerrilla warfare in Iraq.

Guerrilla attack
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/05/iraq.main/index.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Ten coalition troops were killed in Iraq over the last two days, four of them in the deadliest attack on British troops since November, the U.S. and British militaries said Thursday.

The four British troops and a civilian translator were ambushed early Thursday as they returned from a mission west of the southern city of Basra, British military spokesman Lt. Col. Kevin Stratford-Wright said.
...
One soldier was killed and two were wounded by a roadside bomb Thursday in the Diyala province, northeast of Baghdad.

Two soldiers were killed when a roadside bomb detonated north of the capital Wednesday, the military said. One soldier was wounded in the attack.

Two more soldiers were killed Wednesday and three were wounded when a roadside bomb exploded south of the capital, and another soldier was killed in eastern Baghdad during a firefight with insurgents wielding small arms, the military said.

And terrorism
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/02/iraq.main/index.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide truck bombing in the northern city of Tal Afar last week is the deadliest single attack since the Iraq war began in 2003, a high-ranking Iraqi Interior Ministry official said Monday as a new death toll for the blast surfaced.

The Wednesday attack -- in which a truck packed with 4,000 pounds (1,814 kilograms) of explosives detonated in a Shiite area of the city -- was initially blamed for 85 deaths, according to an Iraqi army officer in Tal Afar who estimated the death toll Thursday. Hundreds of others were wounded.

But the Interior Ministry official said Monday that the death toll was 152, making it the war's deadliest single attack.

In a separate and apparently retaliatory attack, gunmen stormed homes in a Sunni area of the city, killing 70 people and wounding 30, according to the army officer. Forty others were kidnapped.

Before last week's attack, police said a November 23 string of car bombs in Sadr City, a Shiite slum of Baghdad, was the war's deadliest single attack.

At least 138 people were killed and more than 200 were wounded when six car bombs detonated there, Health Minister Ali Shammari said in November.

Can you see the difference?

 

[burlboy]

There is progress from the Israelis was what I said. It's not happening fast but it is happening as more and more people would be happy with peace. The old time warriors are dying off and are being replaced.

Yes there is nobody more peaceful than a dead man. That would be the Hamas et. al. definition of peace in Israel. Their mandate is the death of every jewish man, women & child.

 

[basketcase]

So never, blowing up civilians is a part of civil war? Holy (this being good friday) shit you are a peice of work.

 

[Aardvark154]

AP reports that Lt. Felix Carman, R.N., the naval officer in charge of the boarding party held hostage in Iran. said at a press conference that "the crew faced harsh interrogation by their Iranian captors and slept in stone cells on piles of blankets. Unable to see and kept isolated, they heard weapons cocking. Throughout our ordeal we faced constant psychological pressure, All of us were kept in isolation. We were interrogated most nights and presented with two options. If we admitted that we'd strayed, we'd be on a plane to pretty soon. If we didn't, we faced up to seven years in prison."

He also stated as to their position when detained. "Let me make this clear — irrespective of what was said in the past — when we were detained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard we were inside internationally recognized Iraqi territorial waters."

Captain Chris Air, Royal Marines said that Leading Seaman Faye Turney, was singled out for propaganda purposes "She was separated as soon as she arrived, and was told that her colleagues had been flown home."

And predictably "Within hours of the news conference, Iranian state television said the British military had "dictated" to its sailors what to say."
(Regrettably there will be some on TERB that actually believe this Iranian statement).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070406...n&printer=1;_ylt=AtbTLU6otIcbwz_4UT460XJbbBAF

 

[persis]

AP reports that Lt. Felix Carman, R.N., the naval officer in charge of the boarding party held hostage in Iran. said at a press conference that "the crew faced harsh interrogation by their Iranian captors and slept in stone cells on piles of blankets. Unable to see and kept isolated, they heard weapons cocking. Throughout our ordeal we faced constant psychological pressure, All of us were kept in isolation. We were interrogated most nights and presented with two options. If we admitted that we'd strayed, we'd be on a plane to pretty soon. If we didn't, we faced up to seven years in prison."

He also stated as to their position when detained. "Let me make this clear — irrespective of what was said in the past — when we were detained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard we were inside internationally recognized Iraqi territorial waters."

Captain Chris Air, Royal Marines said that Leading Seaman Faye Turney, was singled out for propaganda purposes "She was separated as soon as she arrived, and was told that her colleagues had been flown home."

And predictably "Within hours of the news conference, Iranian state television said the British military had "dictated" to its sailors what to say."
(Regrettably there will be some on TERB that actually believe this Iranian statement).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070406...n&printer=1;_ylt=AtbTLU6otIcbwz_4UT460XJbbBAF

From what I have heard from the freed sailors they were subjected to nothing but minimum, standardized arrest procedures, nothing they have said indicated that they were improperly handled, or were dehumanized.

1- The captors may employ all necessary force to overcome resistance as well as to protect themselves.
2- The captors required to search and seizure to ensure that the subject hide no dangerous items
3- The subject then may be required to be fingerprinted, photographed and taken to military prison for interrogation


Even then they were subjected to nothing close to what we see our own military / police officers treat there subjects when they were trying to take them into custody and deprive them of freedom of movement in a significant way.
If you don't believe me just watch one of these COP / MP reality shows on TV or pick up a phone and ask a cop or a lawyer about what are the arrest procedures,the rest, pure politics

 

[basketcase]

So I guess we will never hear persis complaining about gitmo then.

 

[osanowo]

1- The captors may employ all necessary force to overcome resistance as well as to protect themselves.
2- The captors required to search and seizure to ensure that the subject hide no dangerous items
3- The subject then may be required to be fingerprinted, photographed and taken to military prison for interrogation

Well if you read their testimonies and your post then we can clearly see that Iranians have been farther than simple arrest.

Anyhow whatever action is taken beyond the first question is considered torture - moreover when you hear things such as isolation and disorientation