Washington Post: Clinton campaign, DNC paid for research that led to Russia dossier

[Frankfooter]

Think you will find that the charges are about financial reporting and lobbying. I'm assuming it's Manafort and/or Flynn.

Doubt Trump or the campaign will even be mentioned

You probably know as much as Trump, who tweeted this just before it happened.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
It is now commonly agreed, after many months of COSTLY looking, that there was NO collusion between Russia and Trump. Was collusion with HC!
9:33 AM - Oct 27, 2017
51,387 51,387 Replies 25,691 25,691 Retweets 93,000 93,000 likes

 

[Butler1000]

You probably know as much as Trump, who tweeted this just before it happened.

I'm watching MSNBC. There are pundits now saying that the dossier has nothing to do with collusion. That would be Trump critics now trying to distance this.

Too funny.

 

[oldjones]

Right.....because no one else has speculated as to Trump's guilt here.........

I can speculate about motives as well as anyone. And taking the Fifth can be considered as near proof of someone thinking they did something criminal.

The Trumps have cooperated. Fully. Not so much Fusion.

I thought 'near' only counted in Horseshoes, how do we do that in criminal matters?

For you to consider taking the Fifth is 'near proof' that someone thinks they are a criminal when the highest law of the US says it is no such thing, is a freedom you enjoy as a private citizen, especially here in Canada. Others have equal freedom to believe that's unreasonable, foolish or even looney.

But only your belief has been established by law as entirely without foundation. Continuing to insist that belief is it's own proof doesn't strengthen your case, but no one denies your right to speculate as wildly as you wish.

However, I'm equally entitled to my belief that when you post, you are inviting responses, and to supply pretty much the same response when I see essentially the same post as before.

Near doesn't count, especially when it's in the minds of distant spectators, getting their incomplete picture second-hand via MSM and alt-news.

 

[Butler1000]

I thought 'near' only counted in Horseshoes, how do we do that in criminal matters?

For you to consider taking the Fifth is 'near proof' that someone thinks they are a criminal when the highest law of the US says it is no such thing, is a freedom you enjoy as a private citizen, especially here in Canada. Others have equal freedom to believe that's unreasonable, foolish or even looney.

But only your belief has been established by law as entirely without foundation. Continuing to insist that belief is it's own proof doesn't strengthen your case, but no one denies your right to speculate as wildly as you wish.

However, I'm equally entitled to my belief that when you post, you are inviting responses, and to supply pretty much the same response when I see essentially the same post as before.

Near doesn't count, especially when it's in the minds of distant spectators, getting their incomplete picture second-hand via MSM and alt-news.

Because I'm taking the same opinion that the vast majority of law enforcement and the general public would take.

Refusing to answer as it would tend to incriminate yourself is a pretty telling sign you think you did something wrong.......

 

[Frankfooter]

Because I'm taking the same opinion that the vast majority of law enforcement and the general public would take.

Refusing to answer as it would tend to incriminate yourself is a pretty telling sign you think you did something wrong.......

Fusion is opening their bank books now that we know who the republican who funded the piss dossier was in the first place.
Guess that means that they didn't do anything wrong by your logic, eh?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-intel-reaches-deal-with-trump-dossier-firm

 

[Butler1000]

Fusion is opening their bank books now that we know who the republican who funded the piss dossier was in the first place.
Guess that means that they didn't do anything wrong by your logic, eh?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-intel-reaches-deal-with-trump-dossier-firm

They were all but forced by the courts. Please remember once again the GOP CHOSE to come forward. The Dems have denied it repeatedly. And got caught.

Next will be this law firm's records. And then we will see where it leads.

Better hope it doesn't lead to paying Russians.........

 

[Frankfooter]

They were all but forced by the courts. Please remember once again the GOP CHOSE to come forward. The Dems have denied it repeatedly. And got caught.

Next will be this law firm's records. And then we will see where it leads.

Better hope it doesn't lead to paying Russians.........

You mean like when Donald Jr went to a meeting to get Russians to spy on Clinton, with a lawyer with direct connections to heads of Putin's gov't?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/politics/trump-tower-veselnitskaya-russia.html

Yeah, I hope it doesn't look like that, 'cuz that certainly looks like treason, doesn't it?

 

[Butler1000]

You mean like when Donald Jr went to a meeting to get Russians to spy on Clinton, with a lawyer with direct connections to heads of Putin's gov't?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/politics/trump-tower-veselnitskaya-russia.html

Yeah, I hope it doesn't look like that, 'cuz that certainly looks like treason, doesn't it?

Nope. He didn't accept anything and can say he didn't know she was working for the Russians. And has cooperated fully.

He was an idiot to take the meeting. But as nothing was exchanged no crime was committed. Just, as the main stream media lives to say, some opposition research that didn't pan out.

But look to Manafort. IM thinking he was a mole. Hopefully he ends up in prison.

 

[Frankfooter]

Nope. He didn't accept anything and can say he didn't know she was working for the Russians. And has cooperated fully.

He was an idiot to take the meeting. But as nothing was exchanged no crime was committed. Just, as the main stream media lives to say, some opposition research that didn't pan out.

But look to Manafort. IM thinking he was a mole. Hopefully he ends up in prison.

Jr tried to collude with the Russians to effect the election.
Just 'cuz he was stupid and failed doesn't make it less of a crime.

 

[Butler1000]

Jr tried to collude with the Russians to effect the election.
Just 'cuz he was stupid and failed doesn't make it less of a crime.

Oh no.....its opposition research.......or everyone who paid for the dossier goes down as well. I've given up for the most part of any big fish going down. The laws are too ambiguous.

But it will have the effect of continuing to destroy confidence in the two party system. And hopefully in 2020 We see inroads to that. The fracturing of both parties.

 

[oldjones]

Because I'm taking the same opinion that the vast majority of law enforcement and the general public would take.

Refusing to answer as it would tend to incriminate yourself is a pretty telling sign you think you did something wrong.......

You have as much right to imagine yourself an expert on what the public thinks as anyone; start a polling company and you can maybe make money. The last election (anywhere; your pick) proves there's no need for you even to be right.

But if anyone in LE gave a judge or defence attorney the merest whiff that they took someone asserting their right to silence as a solid sign of guilt, their case could quickly become a smoking ruin. Suspicion is not fact; it not only proves nothing itself, it undermines the rest of your case.

We can only hope no one in legal authority hires people who confuse their personal suspicion with objective fact about others, as you keep posting. Sadly many cops and lawyers do; it's one very common reason why so many cases make the news for being tossed out or overturned.

And well back in this thread, I gave reasons why someone might choose to stay silent in complete confidence they had done nothing wrong.

You've added nothing further to what's been said before, and your view is still unpersuasive, incorrect on the facts and law, and a sad commentary on how far we still have to go in treating each other fairly and justly in this democracy.

 

[Frankfooter]

Oh no.....its opposition research.......or everyone who paid for the dossier goes down as well. I've given up for the most part of any big fish going down. The laws are too ambiguous.

But it will have the effect of continuing to destroy confidence in the two party system. And hopefully in 2020 We see inroads to that. The fracturing of both parties.

Still can't tell the difference?
Here's a test, which of these is illegal.

1) Hiring a private detective to investigate someone, including a political opponent.

2) Colluding with a foreign government to spy on your own government officials or candidates.

 

[Butler1000]

Still can't tell the difference?
Here's a test, which of these is illegal.

1) Hiring a private detective to investigate someone, including a political opponent.

2) Colluding with a foreign government to spy on your own government officials or candidates.

Under the law using foreign nationals for opposition research is illegal. Especially if they were used as a cutout for contacting foreign intelligence services.

Taking a meeting isn't. Tell you what. If Trump Jr. Et Al are not indicted tomorrow it means the clearly investigated meeting wasn't illegal. I think that is a fair assessment.

But #2 can also be applied to the dossier.

 

[Frankfooter]

Under the law using foreign nationals for opposition research is illegal. Especially if they were used as a cutout for contacting foreign intelligence services.

Right, so then hiring Fusion GPS is legal, since they are Washington based and hooking up with Putin's people is illegal.
Glad we cleared that up.

 

[Butler1000]

Right, so then hiring Fusion GPS is legal, since they are Washington based and hooking up with Putin's people is illegal.
Glad we cleared that up.

Now yer just being silly. Or trying to get a rise. But I'm just laughing. We shall see tomorrow.

 

[Frankfooter]

Now yer just being silly. Or trying to get a rise. But I'm just laughing. We shall see tomorrow.

Yes, tomorrow stands to be exciting.
First day in what stands to be a long process.

 

[oldjones]

Under the law using foreign nationals for opposition research is illegal. Especially if they were used as a cutout for contacting foreign intelligence services.

Taking a meeting isn't. Tell you what. If Trump Jr. Et Al are not indicted tomorrow it means the clearly investigated meeting wasn't illegal. I think that is a fair assessment.

But #2 can also be applied to the dossier.

Either one of the real events might be illegal, although you've slanted your hypotheticals to excuse the one you like.

No one will know either way about either real action until charges are laid, prosecuted and adjudicated, and the investigators say, "We're done." Until then no one, certainly not you, me or anyone outside the investigation has any business saying they 'know' anything about what may come.

The louder they do, the more everyone knows their minds were closed from the start.