Why no on going BP oil spill thread ??

[Yoga Face]

I'm not talking about a car that runs on water. I'm talking about a similar setup to what we have with oil. Large nuclear facility on the coast separates the hydrogen from the water. Hydrogen is then piped or shipped to the filling station. You pull up in your hydrogen car and wholla, you fill the "gas" tank. To equip cars with the ability to separate out the hydrogen is not yet feasible or practical. What I'm saying is that the oil companies would have to invest billions. The government would have to invest billions on infrastructure changes, etc.. The car companies would also have to do the same. This would turn our world upside down and would have to be done slowly. In the end, I think it would be very profitable and benefit everyone. So why are we not trying? Why do we waste our time and money on stupid fluff like making more gas from corn? All it does it drive up the price of corn and take it away from the billions of mouths that go to bed hungry every day. Yet we fill our gas tanks with the food a baby in Africa should be getting. How sick is that?

Corporations are more than willing to invest billions and even trillions

That is what they do in the Gulf


You are making up science

 

[eurotrash1970]

Corporations are more than willing to invest billions and even trillions

That is what they do in the Gulf


You are making up science

Obviously not. There have also been plans for using nuclear reactors to create the hydrogen.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/23/2144774.htm

 

[Yoga Face]

Obviously not. There have also been plans for using nuclear reactors to create the hydrogen.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/23/2144774.htm

This is not efficient and will not work on a grand scale

 

[JohnLarue]

They flew to the moon only because the Russians were going to and they wanted to beat them for some reason I do not understand


Why do you fly to the moon to build an ICBM ??? It would be a lot quicker to just build the ICBM without flying to the moon

The Russians were going to go the moon because they wanted to develop ICBMs too

The American's shit their collective pants when the Russian's launched Sputnik. Why?
Because they knew that if Russia could put a 100 lb object into orbit, it would not belong before they would develop a rocket that could put a nuclear weapon into New York or Washington.

The USA responded with massive funding to develop the rockets for their deterrent weapon

The moon project was a convenient story in order to get the funding & it inspired American pride.
Although there was probably many involved who had the actual goal of getting to the moon, there defiantly was a hidden agenda to develop big powerful rockets to get a payload into orbit

 

[eurotrash1970]

This is not efficient and will not work on a grand scale

Like I said, the process needs some tweaking and some issues have to be worked out. But in theory at least it is one possibility. If it can be made more efficient, it could be the holy grail. Then again, so could mining helium from the moon. Which would really justify the Apollo program and any future programs. My original point was that instead of blaming the politicians and the oil company CEOs, we need to take ownership of the problem and push people to search for alternatives. Then our reliance on oil is diminished as are the risks associated with drilling for it.

 

[Yoga Face]

The Russians were going to go the moon because they wanted to develop ICBMs too

The American's shit their collective pants when the Russian's launched Sputnik. Why?
Because they knew that if Russia could put a 100 lb object into orbit, it would not belong before they would develop a rocket that could put a nuclear weapon into New York or Washington.

The USA responded with massive funding to develop the rockets for their deterrent weapon

The moon project was a convenient story in order to get the funding & it inspired American pride.
Although there was probably many involved who had the actual goal of getting to the moon, there defiantly was a hidden agenda to develop big powerful rockets to get a payload into orbit

So in your opinion the moon shot was a way to get congress to fund ICBM program ?

I have heard that before but doubt it

Congress would have funded research anyways

They flew to the moon to show off and to satisfy Kennedy's huge ego.

He thought he was the annointed one

 

[JohnLarue]

So in your opinion the moon shot was a way to get congress to fund ICBM program ?

I have heard that before but doubt it

Congress would have funded research anyways

They flew to the moon to show off and to satisfy Kennedy's huge ego.

He thought he was the annointed one

No doubt there was some of that involved as well, however the real agenda was weapons development
Do not kid yourself.

 

[eurotrash1970]

No doubt there was some of that involved as well, however the real agenda was weapons development
Do not kid yourself.

I don't know. I'm sure that weapons dev was a consideration. Parts of both go hand in hand. But why spend all those extra billions on getting to the moon? They spent all that money and time on solving the problem of how to get people to the moon, down to the surface, back up and then home safely. It was not an easy or cheap little add on to launching ICBMs. It was because the egos of America and Kennedy were bruised by the Russian space program. I'm sure there was some great science that came out of it. But knowledge and science almost never generate the money or interest necessary to fund such lavish programs. Usually the science has it's own agenda and it's hidden in military programs. Some of our best technology and science leaps came as a result of wars, cold wars or the preparation for them in the future. Now if you said that our goal might have been to put military bases on the moon that contained nuclear missiles, I would say that was probably a major factor in sending people there. But they had to galvanize the support of the public so they could fund this massive and very visible project. Making it into a competition was a very smart move.

 

[eurotrash1970]

I have to go back to the original topic at hand here after hearing a news report this morning. They said that by the end of the weekend, they will try to plug the whole with mud, clay, garbage, etc.. So essentially they will be throwing the kitchen sink at it to plug the whole. First of all, I have to ask. Did it really take them weeks to come up with this high tech solution? Who's the genius running this operation? Lets throw garbage at it and try to plug the whole. What a novel idea. Some dip shit is being paid major bucks to come up with this? Weeks into this thing and that's the best idea they can come up with? Also, they announced this late in the week and they "might" have it in place by Sunday or Monday. Does it take that long to get a bunch of garbage and mud? I'm just starting to get sick of how this has been handled. It's not so much about there being a leak. Drilling for oil can be dangerous and we have to accept that someday this was bound to happen. What I cannot excuse is that they are totally unprepared for something that was inevitable sooner or later. With the price of oil, you would think that they could invest some of that back into their operations to make sure they have disaster plans.

 

[Yoga Face]

I have to go back to the original topic at hand here after hearing a news report this morning. They said that by the end of the weekend, they will try to plug the whole with mud, clay, garbage, etc.. So essentially they will be throwing the kitchen sink at it to plug the whole. First of all, I have to ask. Did it really take them weeks to come up with this high tech solution? Who's the genius running this operation? Lets throw garbage at it and try to plug the whole. What a novel idea. Some dip shit is being paid major bucks to come up with this? Weeks into this thing and that's the best idea they can come up with? Also, they announced this late in the week and they "might" have it in place by Sunday or Monday. Does it take that long to get a bunch of garbage and mud? I'm just starting to get sick of how this has been handled. It's not so much about there being a leak. Drilling for oil can be dangerous and we have to accept that someday this was bound to happen. What I cannot excuse is that they are totally unprepared for something that was inevitable sooner or later. With the price of oil, you would think that they could invest some of that back into their operations to make sure they have disaster plans.

Agreed

It is unbelievable they are creating solutions now

They should have known what to do before being allowed to drill

 

[JohnLarue]

Boy have you ever hit the nail on the head. What most of these conspiracy nuts forget is that world revolves around economic realities. If the infastructure, cost etc of alternatives to oil products are not there, then no progress will be made. If foir instance oil passes 200US per barrel then and only then will you see serious investment both by Governments and large Corporations to build out the infastructure and refine the newer technologies.

Sure there are interesting new technologies, but there is hardly a conspiracy to withhold them from the world. Only basic economics holds them back.



kf1

A very sound description of what is in fact the reality of the situation.

Nut jobs like WoodPeker seem to feel that there are 12 old men sitting in a boardroom agreeing on how they can screw WoodPeker over by burying a certain technology or dictating policy or price.

The world just does not work that way. There is just too much competition and access to information of a select group of robber barons to "hold development of a solution" in order to grab all of the profit pie.

Another misconception the idiot WoodPeker is he thinks that all of these competitors some how act together in order to wring the last nickel out of his pockets.
That is logistically impossible

Each company plots its own course and allocates its money and people to develop what they hope will be profitable projects
In many cases the time and $ required to develop a game changer is too long and too much, so they pursue another project.

Ballard Power is prime example.
They spent 20 years and billions trying to develop a technology (fuel cells I believe) to replace the internal combustion engine in cars.
They eventually recognized the payoff for shareholders is too far off in the future and too little, so they altered their direction.
A responsible move from the share-owners point of view
Should they have committed to continue losing other peoples money for the greater good of society?
In commie-land perhaps, but not with my money if I am a shareholder

Now if oil goes to $200 / bbl, then perhaps Ballard could make an acceptable return on the money invested and would revisit the technology

Of course WoodPeker would arrogantly claim they should have continuing to develop regardless of the price forecast, but would he be willing to risk his money for another 20 years with a 50 / 50 chance of sauces?

No he would not

 

[Yoga Face]

A very sound description of what is in fact the reality of the situation.

Nut jobs like WoodPeker seem to feel that there are 12 old men sitting in a boardroom agreeing on how they can screw WoodPeker over by burying a certain technology or dictating policy or price.

The world just does not work that way. There is just too much competition and access to information of a select group of robber barons to "hold development of a solution" in order to grab all of the profit pie.

Another misconception the idiot WoodPeker is he thinks that all of these competitors some how act together in order to wring the last nickel out of his pockets.
That is logistically impossible

Each company plots its own course and allocates its money and people to develop what they hope will be profitable projects
In many cases the time and $ required to develop a game changer is too long and too much, so they pursue another project.

Ballard Power is prime example.
They spent 20 years and billions trying to develop a technology (fuel cells I believe) to replace the internal combustion engine in cars.
They eventually recognized the payoff for shareholders is too far off in the future and too little, so they altered their direction.
A responsible move from the share-owners point of view
Should they have committed to continue losing other peoples money for the greater good of society?
In commie-land perhaps, but not with my money if I am a shareholder

Now if oil goes to $200 / bbl, then perhaps Ballard could make an acceptable return on the money invested and would revisit the technology

Of course WoodPeker would arrogantly claim they should have continuing to develop regardless of the price forecast, but would he be willing to risk his money for another 20 years with a 50 / 50 chance of sauces?

No he would not

If this is the case then it is the govermnents job to pursue reasearch

They need a Manhattan project on energy that would include all the world

 

[Yoga Face]

You are missing the point --- at this time at 70US per barrel of oil it is cheaper to keep existing supportive infrastructure than to build out a new one. It is simple economics. Now the basic opposite argument is the damage to the overall economic system that carbon emission brings but that would take political will and the average voter isn't prepared to pay higher taxes to get the job done.

Your example of a "Manhattan Project for energy" is actually a poor one for your argument because the US and their allies were in a race with Germany to develop this bomb first and as we saw the first one to develop it won the war --- there was an economic and political need for that project, the point we are trying to get across to you is that there is no economic or political need for an energy project at this time.

WHAT ?????????????

Global warming !!! Survival of our species !!!


Capitalism has many great weaknesses

One is that it is myopic

It cannot see far ahead with its short term view of corporate profit.

From an economic view alone it is a viable business plan for the world's governments to do a several trillion dollar Manhantan project on energy if only to prevent the cost of oil wars !!!

 

[JohnLarue]

WHAT ?????????????

Global warming !!! Survival of our species !!!


Capitalism has many great weaknesses

One is that it is myopic

It cannot see far ahead with its short term view of corporate profit.

From an economic view alone it is a viable business plan for the world's governments to do a several trillion dollar Manhantan project on energy if only to prevent the cost of oil wars !!!

Pony up your cash then if you believe it is absolutly necessary.
But do not be so quick to pony up mine through higher taxes for this Manhatten type project.


I believe that supply & demand will drive the price to a point where the return on alt energy sources will attract the investment required.

As far as emissions are concerned , no point in taxing these on a world wide scale until China & India agree to tax @ the source of the emissions (cars & factories)
China & India favor a per capita scheme which is a free pass for them and a non-starter for West
Unfortunately China will probably poison many of her citizens (as they race to be the smoke-stack for the world) before they wake up to the flaws in the per-capita scheme.

 

[WoodPeckr]

WHAT ?????????????

Global warming !!! Survival of our species !!!


Capitalism has many great weaknesses

One is that it is myopic

It cannot see far ahead with its short term view of corporate profit.

From an economic view alone it is a viable business plan for the world's governments to do a several trillion dollar Manhantan project on energy if only to prevent the cost of oil wars !!!

Your talking Greek to Myopics like Frenchy & his Oil apologist cohorts....or is that co-whores!....

Vision and looking beyond the next quarterly statement, is far to taxing on their wee lil brains!
Making a fast greedy buck is all that matters! Fark their kids, grand-kids and future generations! They will be dead by then and could care less. It's all about, I got mine......fark you!

 

[JohnLarue]

Your talking Greek to Myopics like Frenchy & his Oil apologist cohorts....or is that co-whores!....

Vision and looking beyond the next quarterly statement, is far to taxing on their wee lil brains!
Making a fast greedy buck is all that matters! Fark their kids, grand-kids and future generations! They will be dead by then and could care less. !

OK!
Are you going to put up any of your $ for the cause?
Or do you just prefer to whine, bitch and complain like a little girl, then insist that such development must be funded by the tax payer, that way you get to off-load the responsibility onto everyone who actually works for a living?

Exactly how many Alt Energy IPOs did you pour your money into in the last 15 -20 years?
Let me guess?
Zero

Anyone with your vision and ability to be correct all the fucking time, should have had the foresight to
a) pick the right technology
b) pick the right company
c) pick both at the right time

A Visionary such as your self should have the problem solved by now

But unfortunately you lacked the proper Vision to do so and put your efforts into your one true skill, complaining

You talk about having Vision!
What a fucking joke
Your vision is so piss-poor you can not even see when you are making a fucking fool of yourself

 

[WoodPeckr]

Thanks for confirming your lack of vision Frenchy.
As me, Pres Carter and countess real scientists have stated it is time for a Manhattan/Apollo type GOV project to free us of OIL! Guess you missed their latest Debacle in the Gulf! If everyone thought like you we would still be riding horses, along with never landing on he moon!

OTOH BIG OIL thanks you from the bottom of their corrupt greedy heartless hearts for your support! Now go back and polish their boots!....

 

[JohnLarue]

Ranting and raving about greed Woody is a never ending process for people like yourself as there always be greed in any economic system that man can come up with --- maybe focus your attention to solid and reasonable solutions that actually deal with the realities of the world.
kf1

Ranting, raving, complaining and blaming others is what this nimrod does
If someone developed cure for cancer he would complain it should have been available 25 years ago.
If it is a large pharma company that made the discovery he would complain that they will profit from it

When bad news breaks such as an oil spill, plane crash, credit crisis, flood, famine or locusts , the first thought for most of us is concern for the environment and the people affected.
Woodpekers first thought is "Who can I blame for this?"

He is a negative contributor to our society.
News Flash to WoodPeker: People with "Vision" make things happen, build, help others and make the world a little better
24/7 complaining on Internet Chat boards is not "Visionary"

WoodPekers one redeeming quality: He has not reproduced (that we are aware of)

 

[WoodPeckr]

Sacrebleu Frenchy!

DUDE!

With rambling disjointed logic like the above you have to be French, bon ami!

Since you don't want to lay blame on BP for this disaster it will be comical when you enjoin with myopic righties as they attempt to blame Obama for this disaster in the Gulf!.....

 

[JohnLarue]

DUDE!

With rambling disjointed logic like the above you have to be French, bon ami!

Since you don't want to lay blame on BP for this disaster it will be comical when you enjoin with myopic righties as they attempt to blame Obama for this disaster in the Gulf!.....

There you go again, making statements which are 100% incorrect.
Please identify exactly where I have said that BP is not responsible for this disaster

You can not do that, because from day one, I have maintained BP is responsible and should pay every penny.

Similarly, I have never implied that Obama is responsible

As I have stated before I am getting tired of correcting you about statements I make

I have accepted the fact that you are too fucking stupid to formulate your own logical and sound conclusion based upon the facts.
I have also accepted the fact you have a personality disorder which is responsible for your need to blame others for everything

Imply what you want about others. But DO NOT mis-quote me and imply what my conclusions are.

Keep it up, ass-wipe and you will get the nastiest, foulest verbal pissing match you have ever seen (not gentle like before) and we shall both get banned from this site.

I can live with that, can you?