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Can we discuss Arab rights in Arab States.

Anderson

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Just humour me if anyone will and lets discuss human rights in different Arab countries. I would love to do this without mentioning the ''I'' word which is Israel.

I'll start with womans rights in Saudi Arabia and go through most countries as this progresses.

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According to the UN, "utilization of Arab women's capabilities through political and economic participation remains the lowest in the world in quantitative terms….In some countries with elected national assemblies, women are still denied the right to vote or hold office. And one in ever two Arab women can neither read nor write."

In a Saudi Shari'a court, the testimony of one man equals that of two women. In Kuwait, the male population is allowed to vote, while women are still disenfranchised. Egypt, Morocco, Jordan and Saudi Arabia all have laws stating that a woman's inheritance must be less than that of her male siblings (usually about half the size). Moroccan law excuses the murder or injury of a wife who is caught in the act of committing adultery; yet women are punished for harming their husbands under the same circumstances.

Wife-beating is a relatively common practice in Arab countries, and abused women have little recourse. As the State Department has noted regarding Jordan (and most of the Arab world): "Wife beating is technically grounds for divorce, but the husband may seek to demonstrate that he has authority from the Koran to correct an irreligious or disobedient wife by striking her."

In Saudi Arabia, restrictions against women are among the most extreme in the Arab world. Saudi women may not marry non-Saudis without government permission (which is rarely given); are forbidden to drive motor vehicles or bicycles; may not use public facilities when men are present; and are forced to sit in the backs of public buses, segregated from men. At Riyadh's King Saud University, professors lecture to rooms of men while women watch via closed-circuit television from distant all-female classrooms. "[Islamic] Advice columns" in the Saudi Arabian press recommend strict disciplining of women as part of a proper marriage. Women must cover their entire body and face in public, and those who do not are subject to physical harassment from the Saudi religious police, known as the Mutaaw'in. The Saudis even extend their discriminatory treatment to women abroad. During a visit to the United States by Crown Prince Abdullah, for example, the prince's aides requested that no female air traffic controllers be allowed to control his flight into Texas to meet President Bush. They also requested that no women be allowed on the airport tarmac with the jet.

The UN, international organizations and local human rights rights nongovernmental organizations constantly pressure the regimes in Arab states to improve the state of human rights in general and women's rights in particular. According to UN data, the proportion of women's representation in Arab parliaments is only 3.4% (as opposed to 11.4% in the rest of the world). In addition, 55% of Arab women are illiterate. The Assistant to UN Vice Secretary General, Angela King, publicly called on Arab states to grant women their rights.

Arab regimes find different ways to deal with the international pressure to improve women's rights. They often prefer to introduce mild improvements in women's status rather than to enacting radical reforms that might contradict their ideology and antagonize conservative elements in the country.
 

Dash

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Here's what i think..

I think all the women in arabia should leave the country.

Then the arabian men will soon realize and start missing what they take for granted, so severely, abuse and treat like shitt.

That'll make the guys open their eyes as to how to properly treat something they cant live without
 

onthebottom

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Probably not, it's much easier to focus on external boogymen.

OTB
 

Anderson

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Ok, now lets look at TransJorden ( but the world calls Jordan )

Treatment of Minorities

Freedom of religion is for the most part respected in Jordan. While only the three “main monotheistic religions” (Islam, Judaism, and Christianity) are officially recognized by the government, all other religions are permitted to practice freely, and are given equal rights. The one exception to this rule is the Baha’i faith, members of which face official, systematic discrimination. They are, however, allowed to practice openly.

Following the 1948 war, and again following the 1967 war, Jordan granted citizenship to Palestinian refugees fleeing from Israel. However, refugees who arrived since then have not been granted citizenship, and are widely discriminated against

Scouser , your input would be greatly appreciated though I know its not as fun as I-bashing !
 

scouser1

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the whole discussion of rights in Arab countries is pointless, they dont pretend to be democracies unlike Eretz Israel, with the exception of the feudal system like monarchies in the gulf where Sunnis have it better than the Shia,

all Arab citizens are treated equally like crap, for example Syria run by Alawites mostly but has several Sunnis,Christians, Druze etc who were willing to sell out to a dictatorship, the one exception is Lebanon sure its got its sectarian problems, but its a hell of alot more open than Egypt or Syria, the problem is it stops being sectarian the country would cease to exist and would simply be the appendage of Syria it has always been.
 

Anderson

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I do not think its pointless at all. While they don't pretend to be democracies they spend a lot of time looking at Palestinian rights elsewhere which is ironic.

It is also ironic how many people look at everything that 1 country does and ignores everything the other 21.5 countries do.
 

XTORONTO

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Other Wanderer said:
Marc, when the superpower backing the one country is the same superpower propping up dictators in the rest, how is your point even remotely relevant?

It's like, during the Communist era, do you really yell at Poland, Hungary, etc. over their support of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? Why even bother? The Soviets propped up every one of the Eastern bloc regimes, so blaming the average Polish person for the views of his government, which the average Pole was quite happy to overthrow when the time came, lacks any common sense.

Finally some common sense
 

onthebottom

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Other Wanderer said:
Marc, when the superpower backing the one country is the same superpower propping up dictators in the rest, how is your point even remotely relevant?

It's like, during the Communist era, do you really yell at Poland, Hungary, etc. over their support of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? Why even bother? The Soviets propped up every one of the Eastern bloc regimes, so blaming the average Polish person for the views of his government, which the average Pole was quite happy to overthrow when the time came, lacks any common sense.
I don't think marc was commenting on US or Euro support of these governments, I think it was more a comment on how the governments treat their people. I don't see the US or Europe stopping any of these countries from being more open, providing better human rights or more democracy.

OTB
 

scouser1

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onthebottom said:
I don't think marc was commenting on US or Euro support of these governments, I think it was more a comment on how the governments treat their people. I don't see the US or Europe stopping any of these countries from being more open, providing better human rights or more democracy.

OTB
oh really? remember Algeria 1992 full free elections were held, and a group of people that the US and France werent crazy about got elected and oops the army with the complete support with the above mentioned decides to install military rule, the US has absolutely very little interest in supporting full fledged democracies in this region because ya might not like what the people elect, for example Hamas

on the flipside these dictatorships are also products of Arab society and not some alien force that invaded them so its definitely a two sided coin.
 

papasmerf

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face it boys and girls women deserve rights


Should any man wish to argue that with me I would be happy to answer you one on one
 

Tangwhich

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FYI, women in Kuwait can not only vote, but they can become members of parliament. That information is fairly out of date.
 

papasmerf

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Tangwhich said:
FYI, women in Kuwait can not only vote, but they can become members of parliament. That information is fairly out of date.
Prove me wrong with pictures of a member of parlement without a head covering...........anything less is bullshit
 

papasmerf

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The irony is TERB has become a middle eastern voice
 

Tangwhich

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papasmerf said:
Prove me wrong with pictures of a member of parlement without a head covering...........anything less is bullshit
If I'm not mistaken, none were elected in the last election (the first time they were able to run).
Take a look at the 2nd picture on this page from inside the Kuwaiti parliament.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4325207.stm

Look at what that woman is wearing. I used to live in Kuwait and believe me, this is so far advanced from what it used to be I find it amazing.
Change takes times and they are taking steps in the right direction. Once upon a time Western countries didn't allow women to vote and it was a long hard fight to change that.
 

onthebottom

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Other Wanderer said:
OTB, that's quite amazing, when you consider the billions given to the secret police and armed forces of these countries to prop up repressive systems of government at the expense of anyone asking for an alternative.

Mubarak in Egypt gets billions from the US. Mubarak never gets less than 90%+ of the vote, because anything less throws you in jail. Mubarak rules out any opposition by throwing them into prison ... gee, does the US support democracy, or Mubarak.

The Pakistani armed forces ...

The Jordanian king ...

The Turkish military ...

The Algerian military ...

The Central Asian thugs in former Soviet Union ...

and so on ...

Oh, yeah, the US is not supporting dictators at the expense of democracy. Guess the facts keep clubbing me in the head.
There is a valid point in all this condescension....

Should the US bribe Egypt and Jordan to make peace with Israel? It's a fair criticism of US policy - but you can't really blame the fucked up situation in much of the ME on the US - it was fucked up long before we got there.

You also can't ignore that we're not the only country that provides these regimes with aid.

The US foreign policy question here is, do you support stable but undemocratic regimes or do you support democracy and get leaders like Iran currently has.... You would have seen Bush and Rice be critical of US policy in the past a year or two ago and begin the push for more democracy.... if this happens I think things will get worse in the second most fucked up region in the world (let's face it, nothing is as big a mess as Africa) before they get better.

There is an irresistible urge on this board to blame absolutely everything on the US and Israel..... bit sad actually.

OTB
 

papasmerf

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When I can get a beer and an order of pulled pork in Saudi Arabia I will believe they are no longer an islamic arm.
 

Anderson

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Scouser my friend, I never ever said anywhere that Israel was or is the greatest. I even actually have complained openly how I despise their leaders for being so weak but they have to be pragmatic I guess.

Great is what I call the US writing the Constitution.This was mans' greatest achievement. Israel is important to the Jews, because of survival. When a gun is pointed at your head do you concern yourself with your survival or with the rights of the person whom is pointing the gun at you ? Still, Arabs and Palestinians love to live in Israel more than any other Arab state. Ask most Arabs in Israel and they will tell you the same -I did.

How this is relevent someone asked earlier.

This is relevant Other Wanderer because even though the US plays both sides , we are talking about human rights.

People get up in arms here over everything that that I-country does ( and they no doubt make mistakes) but now the same people get apologetic for these Arab regimes not granting even basic human rights.

Today , we start with Syria

Legal Rights

Because of the power of the security services, the legal rights of citizens of Syria are not enforced. Arbitrary arrests, torture and disappearances of prisoners all occur regularly. Syrian, Lebanese and Jordanian political prisoners have been held incommunicado by the government for long periods of time, as have missing Israeli soldiers captured by Syria, and Hizballah, the terrorist organization it backs in Lebanon. Prisoners captured as many as twenty years ago remain unaccounted for.

Freedom of speech and of the press are granted by law, but severely restricted. Publication of any “false information” published that opposes “the goals of the revolution” is punishable by lengthy jail sentences. All press industries are owned and operated by the government. In 2001, ten pro-democracy activists were arrested and convicted of inciting rebellion, disseminating lies and trying to change the constitution by force.

Freedom of association is severely restricted by the government, and freedom of assembly does not exist at all.

Women’s Rights

Domestic violence occurs in Syria, though little is known about its extent. Spousal rape is not illegal, and honor crimes occur. Legally, many financial laws, such as inheritance and social security, discriminate against women, and the punishment for adultery for women is twice that of men. Women cannot travel outside the country without their husbands’ permission. Women are employed in all areas, but are under-represented in most fields.

Workers’ Rights

Child labor is common, despite laws to the contrary. Additionally, the rights to form unions and bargain collectively are restricted.

Treatment of Minorities

Freedom of religion is generally respected, with two exceptions: Jews are systematically excluded from government involvement, and lack many basic rights; and extreme Islamic groups are frequently targeted for attacks and discrimination, due to the numerous Islamic terrorist groups that oppose the government.

Kurds are systematically oppressed by Syria: they cannot become citizens, they have few rights and the teaching of their language and culture is outlawed by the government.
 
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