Cuba may fall

[princekwekua]

Dude. They are fully blockading now.

In Cuba, people go without foo...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cuba-fuel-crisis-9.7083047

So who isn't comprehending now? They have shut down all oil tankers. Which again means no fuel. No power. No clean water, no food coming in.

Care to re assess your opinion. Feel free to look up the latest news first.

Cuba was receiving oil free of charge from Venezuela. That has been terminated.
If they had money, they could purchase oil from the black market very easily. They dont have money.
Iran and Russia are supposed to be under sanctions by US and other countries.
Trump threatened sanctions against countries buying oil from those countries.
They are still doing brisk business internationally

 

[Butler1000]

Cuba was receiving oil free of charge from Venezuela. That has been terminated.
If they had money, they could purchase oil from the black market very easily. They dont have money.
Iran and Russia are supposed to be under sanctions by US and other countries.
Trump threatened sanctions against countries buying oil from those countries.
They are still doing brisk business internationally

Dude. They US navy already turned back a black market Russian oil tanker. It's a BLOCKADE. Not sanctions or just an embargo.

It's why they ran out of fuel

 

[Frankfooter]

Cuba was receiving oil free of charge from Venezuela. That has been terminated.
If they had money, they could purchase oil from the black market very easily. They dont have money.
Iran and Russia are supposed to be under sanctions by US and other countries.
Trump threatened sanctions against countries buying oil from those countries.
They are still doing brisk business internationally

Cuba's biggest problem is american sanctions.
Now their biggest problem is still american sanctions.

america is the problem, not Cuba.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2023586107909189930

 

[Frankfooter]

Amen to that! Keep on preaching to the youth on this forum. Man out here speaking volume. If you ain't reading then you not knowing how a forum works.

Cuba should have accepted democracy decades ago. Their government was heavily already screwing their citizens over. They all come Canada and bash their own country.

Why did they have to 'accept democracy'?
Don't they get to choose how to live their own lives?

 

[Frankfooter]

Have you not seen what their life is like with their current government and with Castro? Watch any YT docu on Cuban people and talk to a few who are working here in Canada and you'll be glad Trump is going to make Cuba better. Will they still have issues similar to Canada and USA? Sure. But democracy and capitalism will def help a lot of Cubans. These people buy like a milk carton and try to make it last a week or two. I wouldn't want to end up in their dirty hospitals if I was vacationing in Cuba.

But its the sanctions that have kept Cuba poor.

 

[squeezer]

I would love to know what the Cuban locals currently living in Cuba think of Trump, Rubio and Americans in general right now. Do they seem them as saviors or possible invaders?

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

No real reporting on MSM. But 15 days in out of fuel. Which means no electricity, no clean water, no sewage control. No cooking no means to store food. Blockage so limited food.

This could get ugly. End up as Gaza 2.0.

And all this because Cuba successfully stood up for itself against the Americunts 65 years ago. The blockade is about the Americunts being butt-hurt, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Daniel74747474]

Have you not seen what their life is like with their current government and with Castro? Watch any YT docu on Cuban people and talk to a few who are working here in Canada and you'll be glad Trump is going to make Cuba better. Will they still have issues similar to Canada and USA? Sure. But democracy and capitalism will def help a lot of Cubans. These people buy like a milk carton and try to make it last a week or two. I wouldn't want to end up in their dirty hospitals if I was vacationing in Cuba.

The Trump administration, nor any version of the US government for that matter, can't do anything more for Cuba than they have been doing for people living in poverty in the various states of the US or in Puerto Rico.

 

[Daniel74747474]

Amen to that! Keep on preaching to the youth on this forum. Man out here speaking volume. If you ain't reading then you not knowing how a forum works.

Cuba should have accepted democracy decades ago. Their government was heavily already screwing their citizens over. They all come Canada and bash their own country.

You could make this argument for any number of nations, including China.

 

[Daniel74747474]

Nah... This is just a bully play. He doesn't like that this third world country is getting free oil, so he makes up security arguments to take an action against them. Nothing they have been doing has had any material effect on the US.

 

[Frankfooter]

You ask 20 Cubans about their government and you'll get diff answers of course no different than asking Canadians or Americans what they think of their government.

Ok, I'll take that into consideration listening to your posts.

 

[Daniel74747474]

You're more than welcome to look how Cubans feel reading on Reddit or something. Or try knowing a few Cubans like me. That entire country needs a big change.

Someone on Reddit mentioned in a topic that China/Vietnam even though Communist has roughly over 95% private businesses compared to Cuba at like 23% or so. Cuban government is so corrupt they won't allow more folks within their country to have a private business that's why so many youth who get free education down there want to leave that country. You ask 20 Cubans about their government and you'll get diff answers of course no different than asking Canadians or Americans what they think of their government. I'm sure ones who own a business that's doing well won't complain much. Most enjoyed Fidel, but many dislike their current government.

If Trump's change brings in a better government and allows for more private businesses and growth that's a positive in my books.

I don't doubt there are people that are suffering. I just don't believe that there is anything that the trump administration or any administration can do to relieve it. Even a government change won't drastically change the economics of the island.

 

[JohnLarue]

Even a government change won't drastically change the economics of the island.

wrong

communism/ socialism simply does not work and has miserably failed yet again
a completely different form of government / economy is required.
i.e. A democracy with a free market based economy, where merit/ hard work / risk taking are rewarded and incompetence and corruption can be voted out of power.
the people of Cuba have suffered far too long under the failed communist / socialist experiment

 

[Daniel74747474]

wrong

communism/ socialism simply does not work and has miserably failed yet again
a completely different form of government / economy is required.
i.e. A democracy with a free market based economy, where merit/ hard work / risk taking are rewarded and incompetence and corruption can be voted out of power.
the people of Cuba have suffered far too long under the failed communist / socialist experiment

I think I will point to Puerto Rico as an example of how that is just not true.

 

[WyattEarp]

Cuba was once a Mafia playground, they wont submit to the Americans again easily. Ironic, today is the day that Fidel Castro overthrew the Mafia State and took power.

So anyone over 75 will have a lasting memory of this.

 

[WyattEarp]

I think I will point to Puerto Rico as an example of how that is just not true.

I doubt you have been to Puerto Rico and around the island away from tourist enclaves. It's a fairly nice place.
It's not as wealthy as the 50 states.
However, it's GDP per capita is relatively high for Latin American and Caribbean nations.
In fact, Puerto Rico is not that far behind on a per capita basis from Canada. U.S. govt. transfers assist those at the lower income levels.
The only thing that keeps it from doing better is a Spanish colonial institutional culture.

 

[WyattEarp]

You can mention Puerto Rico and others who aren't doing well along with others who are. At this point it's better to try something like what Trump is to see if some change can happen and for the better. Does it come at a cost? Yes. Many nations have faced similar things and it can work out for the better, but not always the case. I'd rather see the Cubans I know down there starting up a business and having a fridge full of food than current state past few years. Last time I was down there I brought a bunch of items from the dollar store up here including toothpaste and they cried tears of joy. They invited me over for a meal and gave what they could. Amazing people.

People are raising a difficult question that doesn't have black and white answers. Are the Cuban people better off continuing to suffer under the regime rather than intense short-term suffering to weaken the government's control over their economic lives?

The fact is everyone here is answering for the Cuban people. We don't know what they want. If all things were equal, I doubt they would want the Castro regime. It's an extremely coercive regime. I don't know if a peaceful transition of power is possible without a catalyst.

PS- The U.S. has made Cuba its business for long as anyone can remember. We have a lot of Cuban-Americans who want it that way. These Cuban-Americans do speak for many Cuban family members back on the island.

 

[Daniel74747474]

I doubt you have been to Puerto Rico and around the island away from tourist enclaves. It's a nice place.
It's not as wealthy as the 50 states.
However, it's GDP per capita is relatively high for Latin American and Caribbean nations.
In fact, Puerto Rico is not that far behind on a per capita basis from Canada.
The only thing that keeps it from doing better is a Spanish colonial institutional culture.

I have lots of family there and yes, i have been away from the tourist enclaves. You raise a fair point, though.

 

[WyattEarp]

I have lots of family there and yes, i have been away from the tourist enclaves. You raise a fair point, though.

To be fair, I do realize the life of American and foreign retirees living there is different from most Puerto Ricans.
The retirees and of course tourists do bring money to the island.
I'm an economic realist which makes me more conservative than some members.
Given their geography, I don't know how much any of the Caribbean islands can really diversify from a tourist/retiree economy.

 

[JohnLarue]

I think I will point to Puerto Rico as an example of how that is just not true.

point to Cuba and be assured it is true
point to the Soviet Union and be assured it is true
point to communist Red China and be assured it is true
point to Poland and be assured it is true
point to Cambodia and be assured it is true
point to Vietnam and be assured it is true
point to Hungary and be assured it is true
point to Romania and be assured it is true
point to East Germany and be assured it is true
point to Venezuela and be assured it is true

perhaps 200 + million people starved, worked to death or outright murdered by their own communist/ socialist governments in the 20th century
and this list of failed communist/ socialist states is not exhaustive

communism/ socialism just plain does not work and while idealistically utopian, it is evil, inhuman and barbaric in practice