Fat Burning Question

[Keebler Elf]

I was watching a health show on TV and they were talking about taking protein asap after a work out. I also saw a show that was talking about how the human body will consume its own protein if insufficient other nutrients are available.

My question is this: If a person didn't take protein after a work out, would the body first use up fat or would it immediately start using up protein already in the body?

Any health nuts out there?

 

[Esco!]

Your body will first use up what in your stomach. Even if you havent eaten for 12 hours there is still some food left in the tract.
This will be used up first.

If you havent eaten for a day or 2 the body will first consume fatty acid reservoirs, then I believe it'll go for glycogen (I could be wrong), and then as a last resort it goes for protein. The body doesnt go for protein untill e few weeks into starvation because it means depleting vital organ protein and this will eventually kill you.

 

[Esco!]

I'm not sure if I answered your question. Let me try again.
Your body doesnt store protein, it just takes what it needs from a meal and uses it to rebuild your body. The body DOES store fat and sugar (carbs or glycogen)
When you exercise you are burning this fat and complex carbs.

So my answer to you is the body will go for the fattty acids first.
Hope this helps!!


Esco

 

[J.R.]

Protein is one of the building blocks for increasing muscle mass. It is suggested that you consume sources of protein immediately following a workout because that is the point at which the body seeks to start rebuilding torn muscle fibers. Nothing more.

Escohort is correct in saying that protein (muscle) is the last thing the body seeks to burn as it means the body is literally cannibalizing itself. This is why diet is so important during any sort of physical training.

To add one more point, if you purposely avoid carbs while training, the body will immediately go for stored fat. So although you do need some carbs to maintain your energy levels, eating too much of them is counterproductive to burning fat and changing your body shape.

 

[galt]

Interestingly enough, I'm dealing with some of the same items right now. I hired both a nutritionist and a trainer and here's how I understand it (we really need TREK or Kathleen to jump in on this one lol.

The answer to your question Keebler is <drumroll> it depends </drumroll>

First of all protein and fat are two very different things. Let's deal with fat first. When you eat carbs, your body will do any one of three different things with them depending on your body's needs at the time that they're eaten.

1) If the body is in need of quick energy it will break the carbs down to glucose and use the glucose for calories

2) Your body will recognise an overabundance of sugar in your system and release insulin into the blood stream and store the excess carbs in fat cells (for men this goes right to the gut and for women, to the hips and butt)

3) If your muscles have been worked through strenuous exercise they will be depleted of glycogen (glycogen is what your body stores sugars in the muscle tissue as for your muscle to have quick energy. When your muscles require energy they break glycogen molecules down into lactic acid for energy. An overabundance of lactic acid will make you sore after a workout)

Proteins however, are very different. Proteins are used to rebuild muscle tissue, control metabolism and a raft of other things. So the only correlation that protein really has to fat burning is it's affect on the metabolic rate.

So, why have protein after a workout? Well again we need to look at the kind of workout you're doing. If you're doing a cardio workout to burn fat there are a couple of things to keep in mind.

First of all, never never never never, eat carbs prior to a cardio workout that is intended to burn fat. Here's why. Your body takes about 20 minutes of cardio to get up to speed to the point that it will start to look for energy stores (i.e. fat or what's in your stomach) to keep itself going. Remember, this is a cardio workout so your not typically intensely straining muscles so your body won't look for energy in glycogen, it will look for it in the fat cells. If you actually ingest any carbs prior to a cardio work out intended to burn fat, then you will spend the first 20 minutes getting up to speed and the rest of the time burning the carbs in your stomach. You won't even touch the fat.

Secondly, in order to burn fat you must not strain your heart or any other muscle too hard. If you do you will burn glycogen instead. You'd be amazed at how low you need to keep your heart rate in a fat burning cardio work out to be effective. I'm a 37 year old male about 5'11" tall and, now, a reasonably fit 210lbs. My optimum heart rate for burning fat is between 119 and 130bpm. If I go higher than that I'm burning glycogen. Something that I don't want to do.

After any workout you need to replace some nutriants in your body and you need to rebuild some muscle tissue. After a weight workout you will continue to burn fat to replace glycogen in your muscles for as much as 8 hours. After a cardio workout the fat burning continues for about 1 hour. If you eat carbs your body will recognize the carbs in your stomach as quick energy and immediately stop the fat burning process.

Now, on the flip side, if you're doing a weight workout you will need some quick energy to get you over the proverbial hump so to speak so the best thing to have is protein and a small amount of "healthy carbs" (berries, plain oatmeal, ricecakes, rye bread) I personally like a vanilla whey shake (~45g of protein) with strawberries and almonds. If you don't have the carbs you'll tend to get nautious during a strenuous weight workout. Once you've completed your weight workout you've probably burned off all of the carbs you ate to replace the glycogen that you used up in your muscles so you can go do your cardio workout.

After a weight workout I still have a protein shake to rebuild the muscle that I worked but I also add L-Glutamine. L-Glutamine is a naturally ocurring amino acid that aids muscle regeneration (you can buy it at any GNC or Nutrition House)

Oh and btw...this formula seems to be working for me. I've lost about 1/3 of my body fat in a short space of time. It's still hard work but it has become more enjoyable because I find that my body has the proper energy it needs to work out properly and the L-Glutamine has been very successful in preventing soreness.

Hope this helps

 

[baci2004]

I would like add that the body burns sugars first then fats/lipids.

 

[Esco!]

Good points, Galt.
You actually should take all amino acids (especially branch-chain AA's) and not just the glutamate.
But what Galt says is basically true.

 

[Esco!]

I would like add that the body burns sugars first then fats/lipids.

Yes, I think you're right. But fatty acid burning yields the highest amount of ATP's for energy, as far as the body is concerned

 

[baci2004]

Yes, I think you're right. But fatty acid burning yields the highest amount of ATP's for energy, as far as the body is concerned

Absolutly, but not until you burn off the sugars.

You might have noticed when you have worked out after about 15-20 you get a small dizzy spell or sometimes cold sweats...this happens when the body switches from sugars to fats.

When was last time you guys went to the gym? I can't even remember how to get there lol.

 

[galt]

Absolutly, but not until you burn off the sugars.

You might have noticed when you have worked out after about 15-20 you get a small dizzy spell or sometimes cold sweats...this happens when the body switches from sugars to fats.

When was last time you guys went to the gym? I can't even remember how to get there lol.

Right, and that's why you never eat carbs before a fat burning cardio workout. If you do, you'll just break down and use the sugars in your stomach. If you have no carbs (sugars) in your stomach you'll go right into fat burning mode once your body gets to a point where it has to start looking for energy (about 20 min).

Remember, this is for a fat burning cardio work out only. For an intense cardio work out where you don't care about burning fat and only want to stress your heart, you should actually eat a bunch of carbs so that your body burns those instead of going after the glycogen in your muscles.

I'm lucky enough to have a great gym 3 min from my place. I go every day for between 3.5 - 4 hours (1 - 1.5 hours weights followed by 2 hours of cardio then time to get cleaned up). If I have a day off weights I just do some cardio before work.

 

[hornydawg]

the body uses whatever carbs are in your bloodstream first during excercise, then glycogen, which is stored glucose...then it uses some fat and some protein. your body will actually burn both fat and protein to fuel itself if all glycogen stores are used up. that's why when people drop their calories very low to diet they lose fat AND muscle...which leaves with what I term "skinny fat" ...basically, you've lost muscle and fat so you are smaller, yet, you look untoned. the best way to preserve muscle while shedding fat is to eat a high protein diet so hopefully your body will use the protein you are eating, rather than the protein stored in muscle mass.

so...yes, eat protein after training and at least every 3-4 hours after that.

 

[yeehaw]

..... I go every day for between 3.5 - 4 hours (1 - 1.5 hours weights followed by 2 hours of cardio then time to get cleaned up). .....

3.5-4 hrs a day? wow, you are actually living in your gym....

 

[Keebler Elf]

How long does food stay in the stomach?

 

[hornydawg]

anything more than 1 and a half hours in one session is overkill...you'll blow all muscle off...and the fat will stay.

your safe to do cardio about 3 hours after your last meal.

 

[incognito]

These are all good tips and i thank all who participated. I learned more here in the last few days than i did 5 years going to the gym.

Galt: How in the HELL do you find 3-4 hours to go to the gym. I'm tired after 2 hours and thats with cardio.

 

[Esco!]

I personally think 3-4 hrs in a gym is overdoing it but thats me.
I get good results from 1 hr in the gym 3 days a week.
I dont need more but then again i'm not training for some bodybuilding show.
I guess it all depends on your goals, if you just wanna get into shape then 1 hour is plenty

 

[n_v]

I guess it all depends on your goals, if you just wanna get into shape then 1 hour is plenty

It's more like the minimum then plenty. But nonetheless some exercise is waaay better then none at all.

 

[Body Opus]

I'm lucky enough to have a great gym 3 min from my place. I go every day for between 3.5 - 4 hours (1 - 1.5 hours weights followed by 2 hours of cardio then time to get cleaned up). If I have a day off weights I just do some cardio before work.

I've played football and did some bodybuilding, been involved with sports for over 20 yrs...I don't know anyone who works out 3.5-4 Hrs a day.
Are you training for a triathalon ?

Here are some stats: For an average male 6' , 200 Lbs
Weight Lifting - free weights or machine, vigorous
816 calories in 1 hr 30 min

Treadmill - 5% incline @ 4 mph (very basic to use as example)
1,216 calories in 2 hr

That's 2000 calories from exercise (burned) + 2500 calories you need to consume for the average male....so you will have to consume 4500 calories just to maintain your body mass.

I was on a 5000 calorie a day diet while playing football, at a weight of 265 Lbs (12% bodyfat), all I did was workout, go to class, eat, shit and sleep .
NOT A FUN TIME !!

galt: not to be dis-respectful, but, are you OCD ?

 

[baci2004]

I was on a 5000 calorie a day diet while playing football, at a weight of 265 Lbs (12% bodyfat), all I did was workout, go to class, eat, shit and sleep .
NOT A FUN TIME !!

I burn 5000 calories a day at rest, if I don't eat three times a day and snack in between I will float away lol.

 

[Spode]

I burn 5000 calories a day at rest, if I don't eat three times a day and snack in between I will float away lol.

First of all unless your thyroid is way out of wack than there's no way, AT REST that you are burning 5000 calories a day. Unless of course you did some crazy lifting to absolute failure the previous day or two or you are a recent burn victim or suffer from sort of serious ailment. And if its the last two, my apologies

Next, the question of which kind of fuel you are burning depends on a couple of different variables. First and most importantly it depends on what kind of exercise you are doing. But in absolute every case the body will look to its glycogen stores first. In certain types of aerobic training. Did not say cardio because it is a common misconception that walking on a treadmill, eliptical, stairmaster or bike are cardio exercises. They can be but it depends on your intensity levels and heart rate. Cardio training involves training above your target heart rate at intervals with the intention of quick lower heart rate restoration. But the way most people do these exercises they train within 60-80% of their max HR. This is aerobic training. Utilizing the aerobic energy cycle. Believes its called KREBS. To add to that aerobics classes shouldnt be really called aerobics unless the class consists of only one movement and at a heart rate of 60-80 % of Max HR. That is why more and more you hear fitness classes as opposed to aerobics.

So when training on the tread or stair or whatever within that 60-80, it is aerobic training. With this type of exercises, the fat burning cycle gets kicked started by glycogen(carb) burning. THis is because when you start to engage your muscles in this fashion you utilize your slow twitch and fast twitch muscles and once your body gets "in the groove" fast twitch are phased out. Fast twitch utilizes glycogen vs fat 90-10. Slow twitch utilizes fat through krebs vs glycogen 80-20. In the fitness class example imagine marching in place for 20 minutes without any deviation in movement. After about 7-12 min (depending on the individual) fast twitch phases out, less glycogen utilized, leaving the slow twitch predominantly fat burning fibres as the engine. If this person at the 15th minute switches to doing something else he or she will engage the fast twitch again elevating heart rate and burning an increased amount of glycogen.

Now in order to answer Keebler's original question post exercise meals should consist of some sort of protein that's easily digestible (because of the imposed stress on the body) in conjunction with a high glycemic carb. IMHO the only time of the day other than before training or during, that you should be ingesting the stuff if you want to burn fat. The need for protein is two fold. Obviously building blocks for the body, but as importantly as I think Baci mentioned earlier, the need for glutamine. After exercise of a vigourous nature your body releases cortisol which is a catabolic (destructive agent) in the body to clean up the waste that your body produces (lactic acid etC). But cortisol is bad for building muscles optimally. Therefore the protein you eat, and more importantly the glutamine content is important. Will you fail if you miss your protein. You should be consistent but if you miss the window once in a while its no big deal. The high glycemic carb is good for releasing insulin which transport all this fuel into your muscle (and fat cells), but after a workout imagine two sponges, one wet and one dry, If you drop them both in a bucket with an inch of water, which sponge soaks up more of the water.

Get your Protein and carb into you soon after but not immediately. Your body is still in shock and you are introducing another stimuli. Settle down for 20-40 minutes and let the blood in your body circulate out of the muscles and back into your GI system for proper food digestion.

PS Next time. If you had to choose one for fat loss which type would you choose, weight training or cardio/aerobic training? I think you know the answer.

PPS I know. I'm such a loser.