Garbage Strike - Give Me a Break

[fuji]

And doesn't it just prove he was right to strike, when the City whose 'final offer' was absolutely no payout for the sickdays previously banked, turns out not to be final after all.

Yes but... this is why people are pissed off at Miller. He is not negotiating properly. He should have been firm about this up front and a whole hell of a lot tougher right now.

If we had a credible politician running the city his message to the union on day one of the strike would have been simple:

I'll let you think on this offer until spring. If you still don't like it by then we'll talk, this is not even going to appear on my agenda as an item to think about until March so get ready for winter if you don't like it.

The fact that Miller is a wimply pushover who is letting the union push him around is really part of the problem here. We need a tough, no-nonsense mayor that the union would have a little respect for. In that case too the strike would be over by now because the union would understand what it was up against and take the fair offer it was given on day one.

 

[blackrock13]

Ha Ha Ha! Just heard a women being interviewed regarding the new dumps across from her house. She questions the fact that no dump site could found in Forest Hills or Rosedale. LMFAO.

The mayor is the only hold out on sign a special request for a council meeting. His response is 'if any meeting is to be called, I'll call it' Fumble!!!

 

[tboy]

I bet there isn't one on the bridal path or babypoint either lol....doesn't surprise me though, it's not like we don't know the rich don't get preferential treatment........

 

[buckwheat1]

vacation

Why don't the union ads mention the 7 WEEKS VACATION and the INDEXED PENSION at age 55? These benefits are so far from economic reality that it appears unionists live in fantasyland.

How long does it take to get to 6-7 weeks of vacation? I'd say 20-25 years is my guess. Pension at 55, it's muy understanding it's and age factor your age plus years of service so the longer one is employed by the city the better the pension. How mcuh do they the employee pay into OMERS? Teachers pay approx 11% of gross salary.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Economic reality?

Why don't the union ads mention the 7 WEEKS VACATION and the INDEXED PENSION at age 55? These benefits are so far from economic reality that it appears unionists live in fantasyland.

Who says it is the public sector that is wrong?

Old union motto, "What we wish for ourselves, we wish for all people"

European nations run as if everybody public and private got Canadian public union benefits and I don't know somehow they survive, someone is going to point out the higher unemployment in say France. I say I would rather have that system with its incredible social benefits even with 10% unemployment which to an economist really means 5% because 5% unemployment is full employment with the number of people between jobs at any one time.

Sick days and great benefits for everyone!!!!!

 

[JohnLarue]

Old union motto, "What we wish for ourselves, we wish for all people"

In reality it is
"What we wish for ourselves we use extortion to obtain"
or
"What we wish for ourselves we screw the taxpayer to obtain & if they do not like it, fuck'em we have a contract"

 

[Mrbig1949]

Seems you are hard to convert

In reality it is
"What we wish for ourselves we use extortion to obtain"
or
"What we wish for ourselves we screw the taxpayer to obtain & if they do not like it, fuck'em we have a contract"

There is obviously an INTERVENTION needed in your case Larue. We need to send you to union boot camp for a crash course in supporting unions and saving the world.

Start with the anthem "Solidarity Forever......"

 

[Rockslinger]

Who says it is the public sector that is wrong?
Old union motto, "What we wish for ourselves, we wish for all people"

When it comes to PUBLIC sector unions, it is a ZERO SUM game. Every million dollars that is paid to Public sector unions makes the Private sector a million dollars poorer. In other words, PUBLIC sector unions enrich themselves at the direct expense of the PRIVATE sector.

 

[blackrock13]

Yesterday's Sun had an statement made by a picket captain who was still under the impression they have a 'right ' to stop any one coming and going from a building. Are they not being 'informed' by their bosses or the police that it's not the case. Picket captains are supposed to be the smart ones. Shake your head.

Just to show that I'm fair, the latest brain fart happened in Windsor when management hand out print out with back to work protocols outlined just before the vote. Dumkopfs!! Nothing like waving a red cape in front the poor misunderstood strikers. Needless to say, they voted to turn down the latest offer.

I love The cover of McLeans. Only seen it on the tele but gotta get me one to read the article.

 

[buckwheat1]

Mr Big!!!

Yesterday's Sun had an statement made by a picket captain who was still under the impression they have a 'right ' to stop any one coming and going from a building. Are they not being 'informed' by their bosses or the police that it's not the case. Picket captains are supposed to be the smart ones. Shake your head.

Just to show that I'm fair, the latest brain fart happened in Windsor when management hand out print out with back to work protocols outlined just before the vote. Dumkopfs!! Nothing like waving a red cape in front the poor misunderstood strikers. Needless to say, they voted to turn down the latest offer.

I love The cover of McLeans. Only seen it on the tele but gotta get me one to read the article.

He's got some great points most of you have never sat at a bargining table or know the laws about it or even know what happens at it.

 

[blackrock13]

He's got some great points most of you have never sat at a bargining table or know the laws about it or even know what happens at it.

What are these protocols? Is it that complicated? We have to remember that the strikers have some problems following laws ( we don't have to list them now do we) and too many complicated rules might confuse them.

No, seriously I'd like to know the protocols.

I had a hand out put on my windshield today while shopping, outlining the 'possible' danger at our water treatment plant that 'may' occur and the 'possibility' that some of the management locked INSIDE 'may' not be qualified to monitor our water. We should be worried about this and this safety is another reason their striking, not just benefits. They even said we should remember what happened at Walkerton. I didn't know the brothers were management.

... and hurricane hazel's cousin might visit us some day and swamp the whole operation.I'm more worried about the integrity of the whole sewer system that may fail with catastrophic effects but 'hey', that's probably another union so who cares.

 

[Rockslinger]

We should be worried about this and this safety is another reason their striking, not just benefits.

I am more worried that the strikers will do something stupid to endanger my health than the management team in the water plants.

 

[JohnLarue]

It really would be nice if you had a clue what you are talking about. Remedial Labour Relations for you.

Just because you have extended experience in extortion (Labour Relations if you must put a legitimate name to it) does not imply your opinion is more valued and more appropriate that those with an opposing view.

You repeatedly justify union positions based upon the fact that they are well established and embedded.

Well guess what? The world has changed, we are in a very deep recession & can no longer afford to pay excess compensation & ever increasing wages to CUPE.
Wake up. The city is broke & increasing property taxes to pay for your entitled excess is a hardship many can not afford.

Remedial economics for you

Frankly, I do not care if labour relations have certain protocols that out weigh common sense. If a system is broken it needs fixing & this left-tilting system is certainly broken if we are paying garbage collectors not to work 10% of the time

 

[JohnLarue]

.Taxes will go up OMG taxes always go up, mine included, CUPE members included.
.

They go up because of excess compensation to your lot
How about you pay mine then, if you feel this is appropriate?

Better yet lets just tax union dues to pay for union excess.
A 200% Levey on all City union dues ought to do it.

Its all fine and well when you get to spread the cost of your excess onto all city residents, but if the costs were applied specifically to the source you would scream bloody murder & cause all kinds of havic

 

[Mrbig1949]

Taxes = civilization

They go up because of excess compensation to your lot
How about you pay mine then, if you feel this is appropriate?

Better yet lets just tax union dues to pay for union excess.
A 200% Levey on all City union dues ought to do it.

Its all fine and well when you get to spread the cost of your excess onto all city residents, but if the costs were applied specifically to the source you would scream bloody murder & cause all kinds of havic

The point is not that you pay high taxes but what you get for them. The Scadinavians pay among the highest in the world but there is no tax revolt because they believe the get value for money.

Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized community-Oliver Wendall Holmes Supreme Court

More taxes=higher level community

More taxes means, more schools more hospitals, more nurses more firefighters more park rangers more meat inspectors more libraries more roads better TTC, more parks, and of course we could go on and on.

Higher public sector wages equals a higher standard of living for the community and if you don't get this there is little hope for you.

There is a lot of jealousy going around right now about the public sector. When the economy was booming these were the insecure dopes who chose gov't work over getting rich. Now they look like the smart ones who chose security in tough times. It goes in cycles.

Why do people assume that when public sector wages are higher than private the public ones are too high? To me the cheap bastards who pay peanuts to people to clean hotels should lose workers to the government who pays better to clean museums. This way everybody wins oh except those skuzzy employers who want to get rich by exploiting others (Wal-Mart).

 

[blackrock13]

MB

You make a claim and you have no knowledge to base it on, unless you know a wide variety of salaries for various occupations in various countries.

Scandinavian countries tend to have a higher tax rate and the citizens appear to be satisfied with what they get in return, but you mention higher salaries equate to higher standards of living, so you must know what kind of salaries, firemen policemen, nurses and doctors and other public servants make on an annual basis in these countries. Without that knowledge you can't make the statements you make. I'll go out on a limb and say you don't have this information at hand.

The USA has the highest average salary with Great Britain and Japan having the highest per capita salary followed by the USA. We know where the USA fits in quality of life comparison studies, not as high when compared to the scandinavian countries. Your statements don't hold up under scrutiny.

 

[Mrbig1949]

UN says all these northern European countries have higher standard of life

MB

You make a claim and you have no knowledge to base it on, unless you know a wide variety of salaries for various occupations in various countries.

Scandinavian countries tend to have a higher tax rate and the citizens appear to be satisfied with what they get in return, but you mention higher salaries equate to higher standards of living, so you must know what kind of salaries, firemen policemen, nurses and doctors and other public servants make on an annual basis in these countries. Without that knowledge you can't make the statements you make. I'll go out on a limb and say you don't have this information at hand.

The USA has the highest average salary with Great Britain and Japan having the highest per capita salary followed by the USA. We know where the USA fits in quality of life comparison studies, not as high when compared to the scandinavian countries. Your statements don't hold up under scrutiny.

The Swedes for example live longer have lower infant mortality all quality of life issues USA is way down because capitalism misallocates resources by creating too many poor people. This must be corrected by gov't high wages for gov't employees is one way among many. Average salaries are a great deal different than median salaries. USA hyperexploits an underclass to the advantage of those above. Most European countries and Canada, Australia etc would not tollerate the extremes of wealth and poverty allowed in the USA. The ironic part is that USA is slowly waking up to the fact that they can't afford it either, low birth rate, retirements looming labour shortage, underclass undereducated to take advantage of it. Poor planning all around.

 

[fuji]

More taxes means, more schools more hospitals, more nurses more firefighters more park rangers more meat inspectors more libraries more roads better TTC, more parks, and of course we could go on and on.

I have *absolutely* no problem paying more taxes to get more services. None whatsoever.

However I demand fair value for my money, and that means I do not want to OVERPAY for those services that my taxes buy.

Overpaying means fewer schools, fewer hospitals, fewer nurses fewer firefighters fewer park rangers fewer meat inspectors fewer libraries worse roads worse TTC fewer parks and of course we could go on and on.

When you overpay you can't afford to buy as much.

Do you understand this concept? If you don't you are a lost cause.

Higher public sector wages equals a higher standard of living for the community and if you don't get this there is little hope for you.

No, actually, if you overpay for public sector services that means a LOWER standard of living for the community. First off you are taking money out of the pockets of ordinary taxpayers, who are not some rich elites, but working stiffs trying to make ends meet. Then you are NOT delivering them what they paid for--they are getting less than what they paid for. That leaves them worse off than if you had left the money in their pockets.

Fraudulently taking money from one person and giving it to another person in exchange for nothing does not raise the living standard. You are making a few people unfairly better off, yes, but you are making many more people worse off, if you overpay.

Sorry but you are factually wrong. What you say is outright incorrect.

Why do people assume that when public sector wages are higher than private the public ones are too high?

Because in the private sector wages are set fairly through market competition, supply and demand. There is no such equivalent in the public sector where wages are just bullshit numbers that somebody made up for no good reason.

 

[blackrock13]

The Swedes for example live longer have lower infant mortality all quality of life issues USA is way down because capitalism misallocates resources by creating too many poor people. This must be corrected by gov't high wages for gov't employees is one way among many. Average salaries are a great deal different than median salaries. USA hyperexploits an underclass to the advantage of those above. Most European countries and Canada, Australia etc would not tollerate the extremes of wealth and poverty allowed in the USA. The ironic part is that USA is slowly waking up to the fact that they can't afford it either, low birth rate, retirements looming labour shortage, underclass undereducated to take advantage of it. Poor planning all around.

My point still stands. You make statements that require information you don't have access to.

Over the years I've done projects in over 30 countries in every corner of the world and a few times I've looked at comparing salaries to get a feel for them and get a sense of cost of living, should I want to stay for extended periods or move there.

Some of the information is quite dated but my reaction at the time was always Canadians are well paid and our cost of living is very reasonable. That's why I've alway returned to this great country. We aren't always paid top salaries but the salaries are good enough to make the standard of living very nice. We get good returns for what we are paid and spend.

How many other countries have you worked in? Where do you get your information?

 

[Mrbig1949]

Asserting it doesn't make it true

I have *absolutely* no problem paying more taxes to get more services. None whatsoever.

However I demand fair value for my money, and that means I do not want to OVERPAY for those services that my taxes buy.

Overpaying means fewer schools, fewer hospitals, fewer nurses fewer firefighters fewer park rangers fewer meat inspectors fewer libraries worse roads worse TTC fewer parks and of course we could go on and on.

When you overpay you can't afford to buy as much.

Do you understand this concept? If you don't you are a lost cause.

I think there is this gap Fuji between what you happen to believe which to me is just right wing ideology and something called the facts but you and Rush Limbaugh agree, you are not alone out there in the increasingly isolated right wing loonie land.



No, actually, if you overpay for public sector services that means a LOWER standard of living for the community. First off you are taking money out of the pockets of ordinary taxpayers, who are not some rich elites, but working stiffs trying to make ends meet. Then you are NOT delivering them what they paid for--they are getting less than what they paid for. That leaves them worse off than if you had left the money in their pockets.

Fraudulently taking money from one person and giving it to another person in exchange for nothing does not raise the living standard. You are making a few people unfairly better off, yes, but you are making many more people worse off, if you overpay.

Sorry but you are factually wrong. What you say is outright incorrect.



Because in the private sector wages are set fairly through market competition, supply and demand. There is no such equivalent in the public sector where wages are just bullshit numbers that somebody made up for no good reason.

Nonsense, right wing ideology mascarading as the facts, tell uncle Rush Limbaugh, he believes the same stuff, the numbers are in rapid decline however. You simply cannot escape the FACT that people who think llike you caused THE RECESSION .