Gas Prices

[frankcastle]

My car holds 60 L of gas and filling it at the price of $1 per L sucks!

I drive a 4 cylinder car so I get reasonably good mileage.

As for the guys driving the SUVs they are idiots, I really want to know why they need an SUV? I rarely see SUVs with mud on them or loaded with stuff. To me people who buy SUVs know nothing about cars. Case and point SUV seem to get into more accidents in the winter because people become over confident with them. Now I'm not 100% sure about the next point but I believe that SUVs fall into a different safety category than regular cars resulting in poor breaks. This combined with the added weight means longer stopping distances. Plus being higher off the ground creates a higher centre of gravity thus making them more likely to tip than a regular car.

Basically SUVs generally are not used for their main purposes and provide drivers with a false sense of security.

I would argue that if you are buying a car for status or looks you can get some pretty sweet cars for the same price. Frankly, the escalade, hummer and most land rovers are the ugliest SUVs to be made.

People who say I'll buy what I want are entitled to that but its certainly strange to willingly pay more when you can pay for less.

For the SUV drivers please explain to me why you buy those cars?

 

[Esco!]

I drive a Pathfinder just for the heck of it

But some good reasons are:

less likely to get hurt in accident
4 wheel drive is great in rain and snow
Lots of room
Excellent for towing trailers or boats

 

[frankcastle]

Hi Escohort,

Thanks for listing your reasons, I think they are reasonable.

Towing is an excellent reason but I must wonder how often do people tow and is it worth it in terms of costs in buying and maintaining a truck?

4WD is nice is rain and snow but in 13 years of driving I have only gotten stuck once and it was my fault for trying to park in an unplowed parking lot after a huge snowfall. But thanks to the help of some of my buddies who coincidentally walked around the corner I got my car out.

In that same span of time I have only had one accident that 4WD may have helped in but I think it was my fault for driving too fast in the first place. Cost of repairs was just shy of $1000.

So my point is that in the span of 13 years having a truck would have saved me the afforementioned $1000..... maybe. Now is that worth 13 years of paying for more gas? Doubt it, unless I spend only an extra $77 per year on gas driving a truck vs a car assuming all other costs are equal.

Heck even for moving things you'd be surprised what you can cram into the back of a mercury sable. I've moved myself 3 or 4 times using just a sable and once using a my friends mini van.

As for safety, in all my life I've been lucky that friends and family have only been in minor car accidents but the only injuries ever sustained were mild whiplash and no truck will save you from that. I think careful driving goes a lot further than what kind of car a person drives.

So my point is that I'd really like people to just admit that there is very little justification for owning a truck and they are simply driving one for the hell of it. For the majority of people it is unnecssary and more costly.

 

[ham2004]

I just realized something....

I drive a Pathfinder just for the heck of it

But some good reasons are:

less likely to get hurt in accident
4 wheel drive is great in rain and snow
Lots of room
Excellent for towing trailers or boats

looking at your avitar and your signature line .. you really are one screwed person....

 

[ArcticWolf]

I myself have driven a gas guzzler, a Jeep in fact, but why? I live in Hamilton, & if you've driven through this city then you'd agree that a vehicle with a heavy suspension is needed. The roads here suck. Also used the vehicle for recreation, off roading, so I acctually used it for what it was meant for.

Now in regards to "environmentally freindly" vehicles, it's all a scam. They still use plastics (oil product), fuel cells (it takes a lot of energy to produce hydrogen) - power plants have to make up that increase. electric cars - same deal. All that is happening now is that the focus is being drawn away from the oil producers, and we're given a shiny techno car to dazzle us without asking questions.

 

[new2game]

Keebler.....

Of course. I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to make that choice. But in making that choice you're spreading the additional expense to all gas consumers; you're certainly not paying the full added cost by yourself. I know I don't like the fact that the price I pay for gas is inflated b/c some image-conscious guy wants to drive around Toronto in an excessively large and unnecessary vehicle.

So, yes, I agree you should have the right to buy gas-guzzlers. And the rest of us should have the right to jack up the gas prices for people who choose to drive inefficient vehicles to the point that people begin reconsidering buying them (personally, I would favour graduated gas pricing for consumer vehicles whereby you would pay more as you pump more into your vehicle). The choice should always be yours, but it should be a very expensive one to make...

The choice is already an expensive one to make....I could have a fleet of little shitbox econoboxes for the same money as a full sized SUV ( Cherokee, Tahoe,Mercedes, etc). There is also a gas tax at the time of purchase. And what is this b/s about not paying the added cost??....the SUV fills up twice or three times as often as your econobox..Where you get this idea that your gas prices are inflated because of gas Guzzlers I don't know. If all the money that's taken from the sale of gas was used for it's original intent, then a lot of these problems would be averted. Remember that taxes are still the bulk of the cost if a litre of fuel.....and you know something???? That Menonite in Kitchener that still has a horse and buggy to get him around, and doesn't use electricity thinks that your Hyundai Accent is way excessive....It's all relative...I agree it should cost to drive to excess......the only difference is I think the cost is already there.....

N2G

 

[booboobear]

If you as an inventor, invent a device that elimanates the need for fossil fuels, how much would that be worth... would you give it to the world at your cost or would you profit large from it...

I think the answer is obvious I would profit from it. This is really not the same as the topic under discussion. There is nothing wrong with profit and those in the oil industry already are making vast profits when gas was .65 per litre. One thing I wouldn't do would be price my product at one cost in the morning and change it twice that same day.

 

[Marla]

Check out the website TorontoGasPrices.com. I was looking at the price of gas over the past year or so and it was interesting to note that gas prices, surprise, were at the same price last May that they are now (89ish/L). It seems to creep up from April thru the summer, then drops back down in the fall, then plummets in December, then starts creeping back up thru April. So I don't feel too bad since gas prices don't seem to be any worse then last year (well, maybe a little worse).

As for the price hitting $1.00, I hate to say it but it would probably be a good thing. We really need to get the gas guzzlers off the road. I recently heard/read (can't remember which) that replacing all the gas guzzlers in North America with smaller/more fuel efficient cars would result in the price at the pumps dropping down dramatically (to the 60-cent range, IIRC).

As much as people complain about being gouged by the gas companies, just take a look at the price of a barrel of crude. It's at an all-time high so I dunno how people can act so shocked about the price of gas...

Its not only the price of gas but the price increase of many resources, not only because of gas guzzlers, but China has bought up many of our resources and China's population is mammoth.

 

[booboobear]

.

The gov't has put a cap on electricity prices that is well below cost. The result is that our electricity usage is subsidized and everything above the cap is incurred as debt by the gov't. As a result, few companies want to invest in the electricity sector b/c prices are capped and there isn't enough profit to make it worthwhile. IMO, the caps should be gradually removed (as the current gov't is slowly doing) and each of us should pay the true cost of electricity. That would provide incentive for most of us to cut back (or at least monitor) our electricity usage.

(I know I know, I always seem to be in favour of higher costs for ourselves, but I don't believe in short-term gain for long-term pain and we're really shooting ourselves in the foot both on the electricity and the gas scenarios)

edit: not to mention the political ramifications that would result from cutting the States off from our oil...

And where do you think the Govt gets the money to subsidize or electricity, why from us of course it's our tax money so we pay one way or the other.

 

[Marla]

My car holds 60 L of gas and filling it at the price of $1 per L sucks!

I drive a 4 cylinder car so I get reasonably good mileage.

As for the guys driving the SUVs they are idiots, I really want to know why they need an SUV? I rarely see SUVs with mud on them or loaded with stuff. To me people who buy SUVs know nothing about cars. Case and point SUV seem to get into more accidents in the winter because people become over confident with them. Now I'm not 100% sure about the next point but I believe that SUVs fall into a different safety category than regular cars resulting in poor breaks. This combined with the added weight means longer stopping distances. Plus being higher off the ground creates a higher centre of gravity thus making them more likely to tip than a regular car.

Basically SUVs generally are not used for their main purposes and provide drivers with a false sense of security.

I would argue that if you are buying a car for status or looks you can get some pretty sweet cars for the same price. Frankly, the escalade, hummer and most land rovers are the ugliest SUVs to be made.

People who say I'll buy what I want are entitled to that but its certainly strange to willingly pay more when you can pay for less.

For the SUV drivers please explain to me why you buy those cars?

In my other career, I drive people around and safety becomes an issue. I also go to the country on wkends and have to haul big things. My question is why don't the car companies offer more variety in producing all wheel drive sedans. There are very few to choose from. Once I have driven all wheel drive I couldn't go back. I want a choice of more than a vibe or matrix. I agree with the arguments about the suv and will turn mine in October. Any ideas on new cars would be appreciated. I need to drive a fairly upscale car for my other career. What do you think of the smaller suv's? Are they notorious for being gas guzzlers as well. Wouldn't mind if you could pm me about this,

 

[booboobear]

Here is an interesting note that no one seems to mention, or maybe be aware of?

Canada has the ability to produce more oil than it uses.. that's right we could be self sufficient. So if we wanted to we could produce all our own fuel, and set the price at whatever we wanted - say at "cost".

Very good point, maybe not at cost but at a lower consistant price.

Even better there are engines that will run on alcohol which could be produced from corn . Imagine how the oil companies would hate that.
Then farmers could produce there own fuel.
Actually anyone who started working on this would probably be bought out by the oil companies.

 

[Esco!]

Even better there are engines that will run on alcohol which could be produced from corn . Imagine how the oil companies would hate that.
Then farmers could produce there own fuel.
Actually anyone who started working on this would probably be bought out by the oil companies.

Wrong...wrong...wrong!!! Alcohol and stable hydrogen fuels have been toyed with for a long time but to grow the corn, harvest it and then turn it into alcohol is still much more expensive then simply yanking oil out of the ground.

 

[booboobear]

Wrong...wrong...wrong!!! Alcohol and stable hydrogen fuels have been toyed with for a long time but to grow the corn, harvest it and then turn it into alcohol is still much more expensive then simply yanking oil out of the ground.

I'm sorry but I just don't believe this . Corn is grown now and harvested and you can make a gallon of moonshine in a small scale for a lot less than .80 cents per litre. If made on a huge scale it is cheaper yet.
Oil is not simply yanked out of the ground it must be transported and refined.

The real reason it has never been seriously looked at is that too many rich people have too much to lose.

 

[ham2004]

But you would profit from it..

I think the answer is obvious I would profit from it. This is really not the same as the topic under discussion. There is nothing wrong with profit and those in the oil industry already are making vast profits when gas was .65 per litre. One thing I wouldn't do would be price my product at one cost in the morning and change it twice that same day.

The answer is simple that you would profit from it. But you should, it is something that you created. You would change the price if the market would bear it.

BUT and here it comes .. a little money is ok, but a great deal of money is even better, and this is why we live in captialist country and not some war torn /civil war ravaged place.

 

[Esco!]

First alcohol has about 1/2 the BTU of gasoline, which would mean your 30 mpg gasoline car would only get aprox 15 mpg on alcohol and a gas guzzler getting 10 mpg on gas would only get 5 mpg on alcohol! Of course if it's true that alcohol would be .80 a gallon it would still be cost effective.

The second problem is keeping up with demand. Double the amount of gasoline consumed in this country and that is the amount of alcohol that would have to be produced...don't know the numbers or the logistics, but I'm guessing it's going to take a lot of crops to make that much alcohol.

It would be very difficult to sustain supply & demand

 

[booboobear]

The answer is simple that you would profit from it. But you should, it is something that you created. You would change the price if the market would bear it.

BUT and here it comes .. a little money is ok, but a great deal of money is even better, and this is why we live in captialist country and not some war torn /civil war ravaged place.

I'm sorry Mr Ham but I would like to think that I would be happy with lets say 50 million as a totally arbitrary figure.
I love money , love it but I think it's inherently immoral for people like the oil barons to have billions and raise prices while millions of children starve to death every day.
If this makes me and idiolist then so be it.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Where you get this idea that your gas prices are inflated because of gas Guzzlers I don't know.

I dunno how you don't know, it's pretty simple. If you're using twice as much gas as me to go the same distance, then you're consuming more gas than is needed, thus driving up the price of gasoline for everyone b/c there is less of it to go around.

Yes you're paying more, but you're not paying more b/c you're "wasting" gasoline, you're paying more b/c you're buying more units of it. That's why I suggested a graduated pricing method whereby the more gas you pump, the more you pay. So the guy who buys 80L is going to pay more per L than the guy buying 40L (I'm talking joe consumer here, not the trucking industry).

 

[mmouse]

One thing I wouldn't do would be price my product at one cost in the morning and change it twice that same day.

It's called market forces. It's the same reason stock prices are continually changing. In a fair market the price is the equilibrum of supply and demand.

However, I would not say that the retail gas market in Canada is completely fair. There are not enough suppliers in the market (4 major retailers) and there is no reason why all stations across the GTA should increase their prices by 10-15% within a few hours of each other.

Likewise, the global price is affected by collusion of suppliers (OPEC) although OPEC doesn't control all the supply and there are continual defections by their members anyway.

 

[booboobear]

I dunno how you don't know, it's pretty simple. If you're using twice as much gas as me to go the same distance, then you're consuming more gas than is needed, thus driving up the price of gasoline for everyone b/c there is less of it to go around.

).

Boy you really don't like anyone well off enough to own an suv do you .
First they use more gas so they already pay more taxes so people like you and me can have benefits now you want them to pay more per litre.
I think ,following your logic , if you drink more than me you should pay more when you go to the l.c.b.o.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Yes, they should pay more per L. Whether or not I "like" someone has nothing to do with my argument. And, finally, beer is not in short supply - gas is.

I dunno why I bother sometimes...

(p.s. go learn what logic is all about before you try "using" it)