Holocaust deniers.
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handsome sugardaddy I do not question the event happened said:I would really be interested in what exactly you doubt. Numbers? Intent? I find this whole "modification" of the facts of the Holocaust fascinating and am really curious as to what people think did happen to the Jewish population of Europe between 33-45. Obviously there are hundreds if not thousands of books, personal anecdotes and recollections, films, eye witness accounts, court testimony about the camps etc, etc...
Yet people constantly question what happened and say they are on a search for truth. What is it in the existing data about the Holocaust that you don't believe?
strange1 said:from another thread,
I am always amazed at the awe people hold for the Palestinians. Why is there not much concern for other groups driven from their homeland or in occupied territory, the Tibetans, the Kurds, the Roma (gypsies for the politicaly incorrect), the Bhutaneese, the Tamils. (add other refugee situations like Sudan, DR Congo, Somalia, Liberia, ...) In many of these countries, there is a slaughter of people in huge numbers but somehow, the world focuses on the Palestinians. Arafat must have been a genius to turn the terrorism and murders of innocent Jews that have been happening since the early 1900's into rightous acts of violence that have conviced the world how awful the victimization of the Palestinians has been.
I agree, the world should pay more attention to the atrocities that are occuring all over the world.
Why does the world pay so much attention to the Israeli/Palestine problem? Why dosn't the U.S. State department focus on the slaughter that is occuring everyday in Africa?? Wait, I know why........there is zero financial benefits for the U.S. and there is virtually no political lobbying from the people in the U.S.
Asterix and lenharper - you both pose a very good question, I too would be interested in the respone.
Sugardaddy - You are just plain wrong in your assumption that people are questioning facts and not the validity of the Holocaust. You need to understand that there ARE those out there who claim that it never happened.
Sugardaddy - You are just plain wrong in your assumption that people are questioning facts and not the validity of the Holocaust. You need to understand that there ARE those out there who claim that it never happened.
lenharper said:I would really be interested in what exactly you doubt. Numbers? Intent? I find this whole "modification" of the facts of the Holocaust fascinating and am really curious as to what people think did happen to the Jewish population of Europe between 33-45. Obviously there are hundreds if not thousands of books, personal anecdotes and recollections, films, eye witness accounts, court testimony about the camps etc, etc...
Yet people constantly question what happened and say they are on a search for truth. What is it in the existing data about the Holocaust that you don't believe?
How was the number of people who were murdered determined?? Please correct me if I am wrong, I was taught, that the number was determined by the town and city records throughout Europe, of the Jewish people that lived in those cities/towns. After the war was over, they sort of recaculated or tryed to determine who was left. If that is not how the number was determined, then please inform me.
thank you
zydeco said:Asterix and lenharper - you both pose a very good question, I too would be interested in the respone.
Sugardaddy - You are just plain wrong in your assumption that people are questioning facts and not the validity of the Holocaust. You need to understand that there ARE those out there who claim that it never happened.
Yes, there are people out there that claim it never happened. I don't believe that the 1/3 people in the poll in question feel that way. The amount of people that actually believe it never happened, would in my guess be at best 1% of the population........once again, this is merely my guess. In my entire life, I have never met anyone who openly has stated to me that they did not believe the holocaust of WWII Jewish people did not occur.
Even if this was the only source, I guess these people just got up and left the planet. Maybe they got together and all commited suicide? You might be surprised that the many of the records were those made by the Nazis themeselves to catalogue the solution to "the Jewish Question."handsome sugardaddy said:How was the number of people who were murdered determined?? Please correct me if I am wrong, I was taught, that the number was determined by the town and city records throughout Europe, of the Jewish people that lived in those cities/towns. After the war was over, they sort of recaculated or tryed to determine who was left. If that is not how the number was determined, then please inform me.
thank you
Yes there are people who think the Jewish Holocaust was completely fabricated by the Jewish controlled media. I used to think that they were an extreme fringe group withnow support but to my dismay I have found out that there are more of them than I thought.zydeco said:Sugardaddy - You are just plain wrong in your assumption that people are questioning facts and not the validity of the Holocaust. You need to understand that there ARE those out there who claim that it never happened.
all numbers of actual victims of mass genocide is going to be a result of intelligent speculation as there exists no complete catalogue of victims -- the actual number of dead russians under stalin, dead cambodians under pol pot etc etc are going to be best guess estimates using the kind of data you have described but I think it is save to assume that a hell of a lot of Jews (and homosexuals,gypsy's etc) were killed in Hitler's self described final solution.
No, what alot of people did do was flee before the Nazi's did arrive, went into hiding. This is a fact, as I know of many people who did do this. They subsequently changed their names. Therefore, I am wondering, were these people who escaped, and changed their names, are they included in this number. What was the number, was it 4, 5, or 6 million?? Yes, it did happen. How did this number of 6 million come about?? Is there an exact number??strange1 said:Even if this was the only source, I guess these people just got up and left the planet. Maybe they got together and all commited suicide? You might be surprised that the many of the records were those made by the Nazis themeselves to catalogue the solution to "the Jewish Question."
Agreedlenharper said:all numbers of actual victims of mass genocide is going to be a result of intelligent speculation as there exists no complete catalogue of victims -- the actual number of dead russians under stalin, dead cambodians under pol pot etc etc are going to be best guess estimates using the kind of data you have described but I think it is save to assume that a hell of a lot of Jews (and homosexuals,gypsy's etc) were killed in Hitler's self described final solution.
Although Handsome Sugardaddy's comments are controvertial in this thread, I nonetheless, support his arguments whole heartedly.
Like Handsome Sugardaddy noted, we must question the number of Jews killed. No, I am not deniying that the Holocaust didn't happen as I am sure HSD feels the same way. Nonetheless, we must question how these figures came about ...
Just remember this, it is always the victors of war who write history.
Oh, on a side note, many Nazi scientist were excempt from trial in exchange for rocket technology. Just like many Japanese scientist were excempt from trial in exchange for biological research data. Now let me ask you this, how just were the Allies in obtaining these scientific information inorder to win the Cold War?
We only know how to criticize others but don't criticize ourselves.
Like Handsome Sugardaddy noted, we must question the number of Jews killed. No, I am not deniying that the Holocaust didn't happen as I am sure HSD feels the same way. Nonetheless, we must question how these figures came about ...
Just remember this, it is always the victors of war who write history.
Oh, on a side note, many Nazi scientist were excempt from trial in exchange for rocket technology. Just like many Japanese scientist were excempt from trial in exchange for biological research data. Now let me ask you this, how just were the Allies in obtaining these scientific information inorder to win the Cold War?
We only know how to criticize others but don't criticize ourselves.
zydeco said:Let's say that all these years the number has been off by 2 Million. So ONLY 4 Million were slaughtered. What's your point - sugardaddy?
The only point I was making was that there are people who question the information regarding the Holocaust, as I do, yet at the same time do not deny that there was a genocide.
You might start with "The Destruction of European Jews" by Raul Hliberg, in which he documents extensively the numbers of those killed, and from where they came. As strange 1 correctly points out, much of the information was from the Nazis themselves, who were meticulous record keepers. That an exact number will never be determined down to the last victim is significant how? Is this all you were talking about when you said you questioned some of the information about the Holocaust?handsome sugardaddy said:How was the number of people who were murdered determined?? Please correct me if I am wrong, I was taught, that the number was determined by the town and city records throughout Europe, of the Jewish people that lived in those cities/towns. After the war was over, they sort of recaculated or tryed to determine who was left. If that is not how the number was determined, then please inform me.
thank you
Interesting post, I was just about to say the same to DonQAsterix said:Good lord. I'll let your flip dismissal of such events go without comment. How you could even compare an attack like 9/11 to what was a nearly successful attempt at genocide of an entire European culture, is beyond me.
QUOTE: "Don Q"… I agree with your sentiments.
For me the word Holocaust refers not only to the plight of the Jewish people but
also the Gypsies, the weak and frail and elderly, and also all others that died
in both the European and Asian fronts.
DonQ please don’t you dare to compare Holocaust with any other genocide in the history of mankind, Jews like it only one way or you may degrade, humiliate , diminish or excuse . . . lala…lala!
Come one Asterix, now you are losing your cool head buddy!
Yes.......is that so bad for me to question this?Asterix said:You might start with "The Destruction of European Jews" by Raul Hliberg, in which he documents extensively the numbers of those killed, and from where they came. As strange 1 correctly points out, much of the information was from the Nazis themselves, who were meticulous record keepers. That an exact number will never be determined down to the last victim is significant how? Is this all you were talking about when you said you questioned some of the information about the Holocaust?
You tried to compare 9/11 to the Holocaust. This is patently absurd and needs no further comment.cyrus said:Interesting post, I was just about to say the same to DonQ
QUOTE: "Don Q"… I agree with your sentiments.
For me the word Holocaust refers not only to the plight of the Jewish people but
also the Gypsies, the weak and frail and elderly, and also all others that died
in both the European and Asian fronts.
DonQ please don’t you dare to compare Holocaust with any other genocide in the history of mankind, Jews like it only one way or you may degrade, humiliate , diminish or excuse . . . lala…lala!
Come one Asterix, now you are losing your cool head buddy!
No. The question is, what's the point? Does the fact that the numbers can never be determined exactly down to the last killed, in any way change the reality and the enormity of what happened?handsome sugardaddy said:Yes.......is that so bad for me to question this?
Drama, more persuasive maybe! Ask those who initially came up with the whole numbers!zydeco said:Let's say that all these years the number has been off by 2 Million. So ONLY 4 Million were slaughtered. What's your point - sugardaddy?
