Mayor Miller - wage freeze

[buckwheat1]

I'll say the bank teller is under paid. They have been that way for years.
Remember you get what you pay for. Your still worried about the TTC collector are you aware he also drives a subway and buses and street car.
Are you aware that a driver for Canada Coach makes over 35.00 and hour to drive a bus and he also gets tips from his customers, so I say driving a bus is driving a bus. Your TTC fares are frozen for this year 2009 and they have bought new buses and have lenghtened some routes and times. I don't like teh new buses mind you. Let teh TTC workers work and leave them alone they got their wages through a fair arbitration process becausae teh city wouldn't come to terms with them.

 

[blackmoon69]

greedy politicians. f**k miller

 

[buckwheat1]

Miller won by a land slide and it wasn't only voted in by his union friends.Miller took the freeze himself that's why he can ask non union workers to do the same but then again they don't make what he makes

 

[buckwheat1]

2008 wages mayor $163000 councillers $96805 and everyone is worried about the guy making 45000 - 60000. I'd get rid of 85% of councillers and have like 10 + mayor run the city.

 

[fuji]

I'll say the bank teller is under paid.

You are wrong. That is the going market wage for this work. If it wasn't they wouldn't be able to hire anybody at that rate. So you are wrong. If the TTC posted up ads offering collector jobs at $12/hr lots of people would apply and be happy to work at that wage.

Remember you get what you pay for.

In my opinion I get a better, friendlier, and more sophisticated service from bank tellers than from TTC collectors.

Plainly the TTC collectors are overpaid.

he also drives a subway and buses and street car.

If the collector is a high skilled employee who could be doing more sophisticated work then the TTC is wasting money having him do a job that could be done for $12/hr by someone else.

Plainly we employ far too many of these people and could fire most of them, then, replacing them efficiently with people paid a proper wage for the job they're doing.

 

[Quaggitty]

Fuji;

Some people just don't get it, they cant see the forest for the trees. It is not really worth debating with someone like this. Civil Servents ony care about their constiuancy in election years. Councellors and the mayor spend our money without accountability, transparency or oversight. Toronto City hall could learn a few lessons from my wife on how to shop and get the biggest value for the dollar. We need to get rid of Union Entitlement and go to open public bidding.

Quag

 

[buckwheat1]

Let the TTC workers do their job!!!!

 

[fuji]

2008 wages mayor $163000 councillers $96805 and everyone is worried about the guy making 45000 - 60000. I'd get rid of 85% of councillers and have like 10 + mayor run the city.

Let's agree on a process for this.

Let's have an accounting firm conduct an audit of private industry and find out what the private sector pays for equivalent work for EVERY city employee, whether a city councillor, or a TTC collector, or what.

Let's then set their wages to the private sector average.

You might find some city employees are underpaid, for example, I suspect that a job with as many responsibilities as the mayor has would fetch much higher pay in private industry. TTC collectors on the other hand would face a pretty serious pay cut--down to $10-12/hr I think, which is about what convenience store clerks make for similar work.

Maybe I'm wrong about the details so let's agree on the principle and the process: Find out what the equivalent job in the private sector pays and use that as a benchmark. So, for TTC collectors that would be finding out what convenience store clerks earn.

 

[buckwheat1]

private sector are there to make a profit, therefore the private sector screws it's employees to make a big buck either for the owner or shareholders. Look no furthure then teh banks and insurance companies. Who says that private sector employees are fiarly paid?

 

[addicted2whiskey]

I wonder what David Miller's Terb handle is! I'd love if he addressed this forum... I also think that the wage freeze for non-union workers is justified. I saw a list published with a ridiculous amount of management within the City making over $100,000 last year. I am speaking of basic frontline supervisory positions here! However, everyone knows the City doesn't pay their unionized workers well which is why I think they deserve a 3% increase per year. Coming to think of it... how many people graduate from university and decide to join the City? It's probably one of the WORST places to work from a career standpoint and I really think that the City has to be concerned about attracting/ retaining talent! In addition, I agree with cutting down on the number of Councillors and freezing their salaries along with the non-union jobs for the next two years.

 

[fuji]

private sector are there to make a profit, therefore the private sector screws it's employees to make a big buck either for the owner or shareholders. Look no furthure then teh banks and insurance companies. Who says that private sector employees are fiarly paid?

Your understanding of basic economics--near zero. You fail.

The private sector workers who took the job believe they are fairly paid or they would quit and take a different job. It's called a free market and it arrives at fair prices.

It's like asking who says apples should cost $1.99/lb or whatever they are--the free market says so. It's the highest price that people still think is worth paying.

 

[buckwheat1]

people who work in the public sector think there paid fairly too or they'd quit.
Just leave the workers alone and let them do there job serving us. Do you really beieve if they took a wage cut they'd lower your taxes? NO they use the money elsewhere. I do understand economics the cheaper you pay an employee the more the employeer makes pretty simpler I'd say.

 

[fuji]

people who work in the public sector think there paid fairly too or they'd quit.

They're overpaid. Of course they won't quit. The point is they coudl be paid a lot less and they STILL wouldn't quit.

Just leave the workers alone and let them do there job serving us.

So that means it doesn't matter how overpaid they are? Look, you are missing the point: THAT'S MY MONEY. You hear that? MY MONEY. I worked hard for it and while I don't mind supporting govt. services for other people I do insist that it be spent effectively. Overpaying some gasbag is not effective.

Do you really beieve if they took a wage cut they'd lower your taxes? NO they use the money elsewhere.

That's fine if they use it elsewhere, that means we're getting more services for the same dollars. Fine by me.

I do understand economics the cheaper you pay an employee the more the employeer makes pretty simpler I'd say.

Try reading up on supply and demand.

 

[addicted2whiskey]

I wonder what David Miller's Terb handle is! I'd love if he addressed this forum... I also think that the wage freeze for non-union workers is justified. I saw a list published with a ridiculous amount of management within the City making over $100,000 last year. I am speaking of basic frontline supervisory positions here! However, everyone knows the City doesn't pay their unionized workers well which is why I think they deserve a 3% increase per year. Coming to think of it... how many people graduate from university and decide to join the City? It's probably one of the WORST places to work from a career standpoint and I really think that the City has to be concerned about attracting/ retaining talent! In addition, I agree with cutting down on the number of Councillors and freezing their salaries along with the non-union jobs for the next two years.

Shucks. Looks like nobody cares for what I have to say. Oh, well. The politicians are just the same!

 

[fuji]

It's probably one of the WORST places to work from a career standpoint

Can you name ANY unionized employer that is a good place to work from a CAREER standpoint? I can't think of a single one. Maybe there's an exception out there somewhere...

Unions inflate salaries and benefits but eliminate the challenge in a job and thereby ruin a company from a career perspective. If you want to advance your career you have to work somewhere where people actually get shit done.

As for the city not paying well, are you on drugs? A TTC collector performs the same function as a convenience store clerk and requires less training than a bank teller and yet gets paid much more. How is that not being paid well? In the private sector that job would pay only slightly more than minimum wage.

 

[xdog]

Fuji, if you were half as smart as you think you are, you would not be paying more than half your income in taxes. If the private sector is so efficient, why are taxpayers bailing out companies such as AIG, Merrel Lynch, CitiBank, and B of A. Obviously, you know very little about the responsibilities of bank tellers, collectors and store clerks. To go along with your supply and demand example, it looks like the TTC is required to pay high wages to attract quality staff.


Fuji, why not tell us your job and income level and allow us to judge whether you are paid fairly or not.

This thread is another example of people complaining about middle-class earners while allowing a small percentage of people to rule the country.


x

 

[fuji]

Fuji, if you were half as smart as you think you are, you would not be paying more than half your income in taxes.

I'm on salary these days. Not much I can do about the taxes. When I used to run my own business I could manage things differently but such is not my life these days.

If the private sector is so efficient, why are taxpayers bailing out companies such as AIG, Merrel Lynch, CitiBank, and B of A.

The plural of anecdote is not data. Your claim seems to be that since a handful of companies got bailed out the whole private sector is inefficient. You know what? Even in the banking sector, and even with all their fuckups, and this bailout, the private sector does a better job of banking than the government would.

Obviously, you know very little about the responsibilities of bank tellers, collectors and store clerks.

You better back that up with some sort of point otherwise you're just farting. What does a TTC collector do that makes their job so much harder than being a bank teller or a store clerk? By the way I used to work in a bank and I know EXACTLY what is in the job description of a bank teller.

To go along with your supply and demand example, it looks like the TTC is required to pay high wages to attract quality staff.

Nope. They pay high wages because they have a public sector union and city politicians who are too weak to take it down.

Fuji, why not tell us your job and income level and allow us to judge whether you are paid fairly or not.

I am employed at will by my employer. Any time they think I'm overpaid they can terminate me. Any time I think I'm underpaid I can quit. It's called a free market, something that you and your union gasbags apparently don't believe in.

 

[spankingman]

Miller

Not ALL Nurses get the big money The ONA only looks after the ones in the Hospitals which is a big sore point with the others who work in Nursing Homes etc. A RN in a NH or LTC Facility gets about6-8 bucks an hour less then a Hospital RN and usually work a lot harder.

Don't blame Nurses for the money they get they earn every dime.Yes there is deadwood in all jobs including nursing but all in all nurses do a great job under stressful circumstances.

There's an old saying among nurses "Doctors dont keep you alive nurses do!"

Proud spouse and dad of nurses RN and NP

"Can't get a date get a nurse" as we said back in the early 70's!!!!

 

[tboy]

As much as fuji and I butt heads over some issues his knowledge of economics is bang on.

The big difference between private sector and public sector management of their respective companies is that in the private sector, if a business runs out of money, it folds. In the public sector, they cut services and increase taxes. It is like the union and elected officials think there is an untapped pot of gold they dip into whenever they need to.

One of these days we will say "enough" just like the french did with the ruling class back in the .....17th century?

 

[Quaggitty]

I don't care who you are or what you make!

If you can go to a private market and buy a loaf of bread for $.99 why would you go to a government store to buy the exact same bread for $3.00. Governments prefer spend our money on the $3.00 loaf of bread. Just like the choice you have in your own home, if you go to a convience storeto by bread it is way more than the grocery store the difference is planning and buying enough so that you don't run out at 1:00 am when you feel like a sandwhich. I expect our government to plan and shop for the lowest price at every possible instance so everyones benefits.

This seems rater small given todays news. everyone in the province is going to be raped today when they implement the hamonization tax. In these economic times our government is poised to implement trillions in new taxes (perhaps a topic for another thread)

Quag