New min wage and tipping
- Thread starter daboy
- Start date
Exactly.
According to this link, the avg worker makes $27/hr FT and $18/hr PT. Way more than the millions of min wage workers making $10-11/hr.
So it goes to show there's tons of higher paying jobs out there skewing the avg wage much higher.
Great charts that show industry avgs and profession avgs. Not surprising, retail and food service make the least, but every other industry makes roughly 2-3x more. Lots of better jobs out there. Nobody is saying someone has to be a doctor or lawyer making $300,000/yr after doing 10 yrs post-high school education. Do a trades/blue collar job and your pay should immediately double.
As for food service, I don't think they even include tips in the math.
https://www.livingin-canada.com/work-salaries-wages-canada.html
Earnings Classification
Average Hourly Earnings 2016 Average Hourly Earnings 2014 Average Hourly Earnings 2012
Males $27.29 $25.93 $25.01
Females $23.55 $22.35 $21.49
Full Time Employees $26.91 $25.57 $24.57
Part Time Employees $17.93 $16.99 $16.34
Profession
Average Weekly Wage June 2016 Average Weekly Wage June 2014 Average Weekly Wage June 2012
Forestry, logging and support $1,036 $1,055 $973
Mining and quarrying, and oil and gas extraction $1,951 $2,056 $1,815
Utilities $1,674 $1,791 $1,621
Construction $1,230 $1,208 $1,130
Manufacturing $1095 $1,048 $1,003
Wholesale trade $1,169 $1,119 $1,054
Retail trade $571 $556 $538
Transportation and warehousing $1,044 $991 $924
Information and cultural industries $1,304 $1,142 $1,086
Finance and insurance $1,254 $1,205 $1,071
Real estate and rental and leasing $994 $972 $872
Professional, scientific and technical services $1,285 $1,320 $1,234
Management of companies and enterprises $1,474 $1,292 $1,280
Administrative and support, waste management and remediation services $808 $743 $706
Educational services $1,051 $1,016 $1,024
Health care and social assistance $869 $852 $824
Arts, entertainment and recreation $577 $573 $534
Accommodation and food services $382 $372 $375
Other services (excluding public administration) $804 $745 $751
Public administration $1,203 $1,181 $1,118
Profession Av. Hourly Wage
Retail Sales / Sales Clerk $15
Data Entry Clerk $18
Bookkeeper $20
Accounting Clerk $20
Truck Driver $22
Carpenter $24
Executive Assistant $27
Plumber $28
Electrician $28
Social Worker $31
Architect $32
Registered Nurse $38
Physiotherapist $38
Computer Engineer (not software) $40
Lawyer $57
Computer & Info Sys Manager $62
Engineering Manager $67
Dentist $75
Not everyone is qualified for the higher wage jobs nor has the money to afford the education required to get better jobs.
Many service workers are students and make good money due to tipping - vs paying good wages.
I agree trade schools can be better than college for some folks. In the U.S. we have a huge lack of skilled blue collar jobs especially in construction which is slowing down projects. Builders can not find enough roofers, electricians etc. Part of this is due to the deportation policies since we had so many illegal mexican skilled workers. That is another issue, I believe in strickter enforcement of immigration but also not have to wait 10 year to get a VISA. And we should be more like Canada based on skills and knowing the language not just because have family in U.S.
Many service workers are students and make good money due to tipping - vs paying good wages.
I agree trade schools can be better than college for some folks. In the U.S. we have a huge lack of skilled blue collar jobs especially in construction which is slowing down projects. Builders can not find enough roofers, electricians etc. Part of this is due to the deportation policies since we had so many illegal mexican skilled workers. That is another issue, I believe in strickter enforcement of immigration but also not have to wait 10 year to get a VISA. And we should be more like Canada based on skills and knowing the language not just because have family in U.S.
Students working for low wages is a given. Lots of them, low skills, they'll take anything for some pocket money. I did like everyone else. Everything from minimum wage for $6/hr, to being a waiter for $5/hr + tips. My first real job I was a clerk in an office doing admin work. Probably among the lowest ranked people at the building.
But for some 35 or 40 year old still working a low end job for 15-20 years, there's something wrong.
- Poor skills
- Poor resume/interview skills
- Too picky. They might be a daydreamer only willing to take some kind of sweet office job, and doesn't want to take something else that is more realistic
- Combined with above point, don't want to retrain themselves to get something more realistic so they wait it out hoping for something good to pop up, which their current resume suffices
- Sorry to say, but you had your chance and missed the boat. A business would rather hire a new grad at $40,000, then the lifetime low end jobber whose already 35-40 years old even if they have similar educational backgrounds. One person is young, eager and can be molded to fit the company. The other person is probably miserable, and already set in their ways
Occasionally made valid points. Gee burned out at 30-40, must really be bad for those 50-60.
My first job was at a golf driving range, taking the money and chasing golf balls in a tractor with arms that swept up balls into baskets. Was near minimum wage as I recall...centuries ago.
My first job was at a golf driving range, taking the money and chasing golf balls in a tractor with arms that swept up balls into baskets. Was near minimum wage as I recall...centuries ago.
It really comes down to mentality and how much someone thinks they are worth vs what any business (or government) offers as a job.
For people with low end jobs, it basically comes down to this:
- Students taking any job for some pocket money
- People in a crappy job for a while when they should have already be on their way to a decent career, but some reason is stuck in a lousy job. They believe they are worth a lot more, but stuck, while lots of other people have succeeded in getting a a decent hourly wage or salary job. These are the whiners making $12/hr but think they are worth $50/hr
- People in a crappy job, but accept that's what they do and will treat themselves and the job with respect. No complaints, no whining. These are like those nice old ladies working checkout at a grocery store. They've been doing it a while, and know in their heart that's what they can get, so they do the job till they retire. No complaining or bitching thinking they are worth $50/hr
The avg person can not pick a suspect out of a lineup what makes you think they would even remember?
Although it would make me laugh harder if someone stewed all week then gets same client next weekend
Must be a really slow restaurant... that's just sad really...
Either way then if they remember not getting tip last time maybe get better service (and still no tip) the next time
At the end of the day, if a job (we're talking servers lately) is relying on handouts from customers to make a living, no waiter should be criticizing customers. If you have a beef with pay, go speak to the boss. They are ones employing you. Instead of calling customers cheap, let's see them have the balls to call the boss cheap.
You should be lucky that in Canada (and US) there's been this cultural norm that servers get paid 15%. And even luckier, most people pay the 15% based on the after-tax amount. At 13% HST in Ontario, applying 15% on that is another 2% you really shouldn't get, but you get it most of the time anyway.
Also, let's face it. Anytime there is a cash tip given, hardly anyone claims that on their T4.
So stop griping.
Nobody ever guaranteed serving people food at a table was a job destined to be a good living.
You should be lucky that in Canada (and US) there's been this cultural norm that servers get paid 15%. And even luckier, most people pay the 15% based on the after-tax amount. At 13% HST in Ontario, applying 15% on that is another 2% you really shouldn't get, but you get it most of the time anyway.
Also, let's face it. Anytime there is a cash tip given, hardly anyone claims that on their T4.
So stop griping.
Nobody ever guaranteed serving people food at a table was a job destined to be a good living.
your selfish and cheap. (but I knew that a while ago from a thread regarding tipping delivery drivers where you also mentioned how generous you are by tipping zero)
p.s there's a difference between finding the best price for something and not doing what is ethical thing to do in our society. Clearly you missed the point I made about how they get less because the expectation is they get tipped. It's people like you that will hopefully change things and tips will be put right into the price. They'll make the decision for you.
I'm all for building tips into the price if that makes it easier, but the thing about tipping that doesn't make sense is why is it based on a % basis? Why not a per person basis?
A server at Denny's can work a table for 4 and have a $50 bill. Tip? Maybe $8-10.
A server at the Keg working a table for 4 can have a $250 bill. Tip? Maybe $40-50.
So if each server is doing similar work, both nice people, both doing a good job working their tables, why should the Keg diners be forced to pay more tip?
Even better, let's say a guy walks in and buys a $500 bottle of wine and sits there by himself. No hassles, no mess. He leaves in an hour. This guy would be expected from the servers and bartender to pay $150-200 tip despite them doing basically no work.
So it goes to show that tipping can be a stupid set of calculations and expectation.
For sure the whole concept is idiotic, but unfortunately it is what it is at this point. Your going to tip more at the Keg because it's just more upscale, the same way your going to pay more for your meal there. I would love to see tipping included in prices but you know what would happen then? Some people would still tip starting the cycle all over again and it would put pressure on the non-tippers excluding TeeJay who puts all those extra loonies in his piggy bank.
I understand the meal costing more, since a steak, potatoes and glass of wine is higher quality than eggs and pancakes.
But for similar service, if tipping is the norm, it should really be on a per person basis, assuming they do a good job. Whatever the amount is..... $5 per person or whatever. That would make the service of a waiter similar no matter where you eat and no matter where they work.
I'm all for built-in pricing. It would make it easier, and you wouldn't get stares from servers. Also, it would actually be a bonus, because even if that happened, I bet all the money I have restaurants would still have an optional tip line and some people will still give a tip because they are used to it.
So what will happen is server's pay gets bumped up a few bucks per hour, and they still will some amount of tips.
For anyone who supports % tipping like it is now, can someone explain this?
- A family eats at Denny's worth $50. Takes an hour. Lots of going back and forth taking orders, grabbing drinks, maybe the kid makes a mess, sticky tables and clean up
- A guy decides to go to restaurant after work, sit at the bar and orders $50 of wine. Takes an hour. Nice guy, no hassles, neat and tidy
So why would the guy drinking wine be expected to pay an equal amount of tip?
All i know is if i had a $100 for every post in this thread i would not have to worry about any tips for this week
Silly of them to expect it but there are entire groups in our society who would never think of tipping regardless of income levels
I mean fuck common sense
If I spent a million dollars in my life and do not tip 20% that means an extra $200,000 to spend
You can act all outraged but at end of the day I do better than you do
