New min wage and tipping

[black booty lover]

Facts & numbers?
Ok this is priceless

Please link to which post you backed up your OPINION with any sort of proof
(You do realize saying I had a friend who told me is not proof right?)


*sighs*
You really do not understand that this "calculated guess" is racist?

If you could say I REMEMBER THIS FAMILY from last week ok
But saying this family is black like that other black family last week is 100% racist

TeeJay, here's a question for you:

Your a sever in a restaurant and part of the way you make your living is off tips.

It's your first week on the job. So far you've waited on 20 tables of black families of which two families tipped, and 20 tables of white families where 19 have tipped. The host seats two families, one black and one white (we'll assume both families are the exact same in terms of politeness and everything else). You and another sever at the restaurant have a friendly bet about which family will tip. Which family you going to bet on?

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

I am quite amazed at people who tip in general

It's simple. It is part of the social contract we agree to when we enter a service restaurant.
The restaurant pays the base wage for the server but the understanding and expectation is that the customer will top up that wage. The amount of the top-up depends of the quality of the service. 15% (BEFORE TAX!!) is the standard amount if the service is good but not remarkable. The member above who brags that he never tips over 12% is demonstrating a lack of class and that he does not understand the social contract.

It is understood that customers will vary upwards or downwards based on the service quality but, since it's on the honour system, there is a responsibility to be fair. A tip under 10% in a full service (pun not intended) restaurant should only happen if the quality of the service was really below par - for reasons that the server can control. This should not mean punishing a server for being too busy or if the kitchen messed up; you should note what the server did to try to mitigate the issues he or she could not control. If the waiter is slow and you see them gossiping with the bartender when you are waiting that is the waiter's fault. If the drinks are slow because the bar is slammed, don't punish your server.

One trend I don't like is that card and mobile payment machines now offer tip options that often start at 15 or 20% and are calculated AFTER tax. This is an unfair grab and is just as classless as under-tipping. The restaurant is seeking to get the customer to over-subsidize the server!

In some American cities, I've seen payment terminals that have tip options STARTING at 20 or 25%! That's just crazy.

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

The host seats two families, one black and one white (we'll assume both families are the exact same in terms of politeness and everything else). You and another sever at the restaurant have a friendly bet about which family will tip. Which family you going to bet on?

There's nothing wrong about having an OPINION as to which family is likely to tip more. However, having an opinion about probability does not excuse translating that opinion into behaviour. You may expect one family to tip differently but you don't know if your expectation will apply to this case until after the meal is over. In the meantime, the obligation is to treat both families equally.

 

[black booty lover]

There's nothing wrong about having an OPINION as to which family is likely to tip more. However, having an opinion about probability does not excuse translating that opinion into behaviour. You may expect one family to tip differently but you don't know if your expectation will apply to this case until after the meal is over. In the meantime, the obligation is to treat both families equally.

Has nothing to do with behaviour. He accused me of being a racist because I stated facts about friends and peers who have worked in the industry shared there experiences with me. I made a calculated guess on something which he's translates as me being racist. So I gave him that example to prove a point.

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

Has nothing to do with behaviour. He accused me of being a racist because I stated facts about friends peers who have worked in the industry shared there experiences with me. I made a calculated guess on something which he's translates as me being racist. So I gave him that example to prove a point.

Profiling based on race is, by definition, racist.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

Profiling based on race is, by definition, racist.

Just out of curiosity, what is having an educated guess based on personal experience?

 

[black booty lover]

Profiling based on race is, by definition, racist.

This is completely false.

Not liking somebody because the colour of there skin, is racist. Acting like your race is superior to another, is racist.

Recognizing cultural differences is not.

Stating facts and making calculated guess based on facts is not.

There's a Caucasian man and Asian man standing beside each other. They are both currently 50 years old. We'll hypothetically say the average Asian male lives until he's 90 and the average Caucasian male lives until he's 80. You have 50 bucks and you have to bet on which one will live longer. Who you going to place your bet on?

 

[TeeJay]

He made me laugh because he could have bought and sold the entire Mandarin chain and he was only leaving 20 cents as a tip.

Stop the story right here

People leaving tips at a buffet restaurant where they serve themselves???

Seriously???

This thread is full of comedians, on what basis would anyone ever think of leaving a tip at a buffet style restaurant?

 

[TeeJay]

TeeJay, here's a question for you:

Your a sever in a restaurant and part of the way you make your living is off tips.

It's your first week on the job. So far you've waited on 20 tables of black families of which two families tipped, and 20 tables of white families where 19 have tipped. The host seats two families, one black and one white (we'll assume both families are the exact same in terms of politeness and everything else). You and another sever at the restaurant have a friendly bet about which family will tip. Which family you going to bet on?

Actually if you think about it your own logic is flawed
If I *think* table 1 is going to leave me a tip anyways I would concentrate more on table 2 to try and get 2 tips

But either way I would still be not worrying if half my tables are leaving tips
It ends up paying alot more than min wage
(in your example I made 20 tips in 5 days of work; quite good actually)


Question back to you:
Have you ever left a tip at a buffet style restaurant? (eg Mandarin)

 

[Scarbarian]

You know what really pisses me off? When servers act like they're being screwed. They would say how fast food burger employees or Starbucks baristas make more than them but do less work (which I call bullshit - take a look at any Starbucks of McDonald's during rush times and you know they do no less than a waiter bringing over cups and plates). Worse is when they make it seem like Ontario has the same situation as the states where servers make like $3 an hour.

As a student, I know a lot of servers and all of them would always make a sob story about how little they make when in fact, they would much rather get tips than have the same minimum wage as a regular employee. They only use the "well, the government rips us off so we need the tips to balance things out" routine to mask how not unfortunate they actually are. Think about it: assuming a server works 8 hours a night, 5 days/nights a week, serving 20 tables per shift, each totaling $40 before tax (a really conservative number but hear me out), that server will make $616 ($9.90 x 8 + $40 x 20 x 5.5%). And that's if everyone is being an "asshole" by only tipping 10% before tax and STILL tipping out the kitchen staff at 4.5%. If a server earns regular minimum wage and no tips based on that same work schedule, they would make $456 a week. That's enough for a MP session a week.

And we all know $40 per table is really low. A couple who orders one appetizer to share, two entrees, and two drinks will need to fork out at LEAST $60 pre-tax even at a typical family restaurant like Kelseys or Swiss Chalet. Business meals will be more than that. Groups of 4 will be more than that. Hell even dates with an escort will probably be more than that. If you consistently server 60 tables a night, you're making $726 a week based on cheap tippers. If everyone tips the standard 15%, they're making $1026 a week. It's $1296 a week if servers con us into tipping 20%. That's over $67,000 a year and much of that will be undeclared and tax free. Get a few tables a night that run bills over $100 and you're making over $70K. To be a fucking server!!! I know finance and legal professionals who make less than that. Somehow we've enabled a culture where something like this is EXPECTED. A server requires zero higher education but they demand to make double the amount on what some entry level university grad positions are making. Just think about that.

By the way, tips are only supposed to be applied to restaurants that sell booze. Do you tip at a place like Demetres, Cora, or Sunset Grill? Because those guys are supposed to make a regular minimum wage from their employer since they're establishment does not serve alcohol. If you tip these guys, why not tip the guy who bags your meal at McDonald's or the guy who made your custom latte at Starbucks?

The whole concept behind tipping in Canada is fucked.

 

[fuji]

So PayScale says that the highest earning servers are bartenders in San Francisco who earn around $15/hr in tips. The lowest were in New York at around $7/hr. That's tips on top of salary. US data, but Americans tip more than Canadians so let's go with it.

Waiters ranged from 13 on the high end to the same 7 on the low end. Looks like there's more upside for bartenders but at the low end they're the same.

These are averages so no doubt the servers at the high end steak houses and the bartenders at the busiest night clubs are doing better but these are averages.

So your $60k figure isn't adding up. With that US data it seems they range from a total of about $16/hr to $24/hr all in, tax and salary together.

That equates to between$30k and $45k per year total income which matches what I see in terms of the lifestyle lived by servers I've met.

In a busy night club they can do better. In university I had a GF who waitressed in a popular nightclub in Toronto. She could bring home the equivalent of $600 today's money in tips on a Saturday or Friday shift, but it was a popular spot and she was young and pretty. On a Tuesday shift she would be lucky to get $100 and she didn't always get the weekend shift and rarely both Friday and Saturday. That puts her around $50k if she had been working full time (she only did it part time, student).

 

[Scarbarian]

So your $60k figure isn't adding up. With that US data it seems they range from a total of about $16/hr to $24/hr all in, tax and salary together.

That equates to between $30k and $45k per year total income which matches what I see in terms of the lifestyle lives by servers I've met.

I think most tip between 12-15% (you'll get a few high ballers and a few who will throw pennies no matter what they order). But a lot of servers are saying we should be tipping 20% as standard, which is what will drive their income up over $60K, which is bullshit.

 

[happ]

I routinely tip 20%.

wow an extra quarter after nursing a beer for two hours

 

[black booty lover]

Actually if you think about it your own logic is flawed
If I *think* table 1 is going to leave me a tip anyways I would concentrate more on table 2 to try and get 2 tips

But either way I would still be not worrying if half my tables are leaving tips
It ends up paying alot more than min wage
(in your example I made 20 tips in 5 days of work; quite good actually)


Question back to you:
Have you ever left a tip at a buffet style restaurant? (eg Mandarin)

You totally avoided the question, another example of you not reading things.

The question wasn't which table are you going to concentrate on, the question was you and anther server have a friendly bet about which table is going to tip based on the number I gave you. Which family you going to bet on leaves a tip?

 

[Butler1000]

Stop the story right here

People leaving tips at a buffet restaurant where they serve themselves???

Seriously???

This thread is full of comedians, on what basis would anyone ever think of leaving a tip at a buffet style restaurant?

Haven't worked at a Buffet Restaurant as well I can tell you two things. One you still need to upsell on drinks if possible. And two the server actually makes more trips to the table to pick up plates etc, change cutlery.

It is easier mentally, and I didn't expect big percentages. But I can say I did work harder physically.

 

[Butler1000]

You know what really pisses me off? When servers act like they're being screwed. They would say how fast food burger employees or Starbucks baristas make more than them but do less work (which I call bullshit - take a look at any Starbucks of McDonald's during rush times and you know they do no less than a waiter bringing over cups and plates). Worse is when they make it seem like Ontario has the same situation as the states where servers make like $3 an hour.

As a student, I know a lot of servers and all of them would always make a sob story about how little they make when in fact, they would much rather get tips than have the same minimum wage as a regular employee. They only use the "well, the government rips us off so we need the tips to balance things out" routine to mask how not unfortunate they actually are. Think about it: assuming a server works 8 hours a night, 5 days/nights a week, serving 20 tables per shift, each totaling $40 before tax (a really conservative number but hear me out), that server will make $616 ($9.90 x 8 + $40 x 20 x 5.5%). And that's if everyone is being an "asshole" by only tipping 10% before tax and STILL tipping out the kitchen staff at 4.5%. If a server earns regular minimum wage and no tips based on that same work schedule, they would make $456 a week. That's enough for a MP session a week.

And we all know $40 per table is really low. A couple who orders one appetizer to share, two entrees, and two drinks will need to fork out at LEAST $60 pre-tax even at a typical family restaurant like Kelseys or Swiss Chalet. Business meals will be more than that. Groups of 4 will be more than that. Hell even dates with an escort will probably be more than that. If you consistently server 60 tables a night, you're making $726 a week based on cheap tippers. If everyone tips the standard 15%, they're making $1026 a week. It's $1296 a week if servers con us into tipping 20%. That's over $67,000 a year and much of that will be undeclared and tax free. Get a few tables a night that run bills over $100 and you're making over $70K. To be a fucking server!!! I know finance and legal professionals who make less than that. Somehow we've enabled a culture where something like this is EXPECTED. A server requires zero higher education but they demand to make double the amount on what some entry level university grad positions are making. Just think about that.

By the way, tips are only supposed to be applied to restaurants that sell booze. Do you tip at a place like Demetres, Cora, or Sunset Grill? Because those guys are supposed to make a regular minimum wage from their employer since they're establishment does not serve alcohol. If you tip these guys, why not tip the guy who bags your meal at McDonald's or the guy who made your custom latte at Starbucks?

The whole concept behind tipping in Canada is fucked.

You are way off on your numbers. Especially these days.

Most chains allow each server 3-4 table sections max. With max of 14 seats. And most night you can expect to turn tables maybe twice. So that is 9-12 tables total. Weekend maybe a third time.

Meal prices, I will say is also off, but you were a bit low. It depends on the restaurant and the neighbourhood. Serving in DT is a lot different than the airport, and again in Scarborough and again Pickering. Different clientele, rush times, families vs couples, how long they dine etc.

Quite simply I didn't look at daily or weekly. I looked at monthly. Here is a breakdown for you at one chain I worked at about 12 years ago.

Served 800 covers(people) per month.
Average check(per person) $29 bucks.
Average tip was about 14%.
Tip out was 3% after tax(for bar, hosts, kitchen).

Add on about 25% to account for inflation to bring it to today's value. And also remember I was a top server who was the openner, the best turn and burner, and top three seller in the place I was in all catagories(#1 in covers every week).

Average server drop the average check 4 bucks and covers by 50.

Those are your base numbers.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

You are way off on your numbers. Especially these days.

Welcome to the world of escorting on TERB. The numbers are always off. LOL


Now back to the tipping. I know one guy will only ever tip the difference in wage. So I think right now the different between a server wage and min. wage is $1.50 so that is all he tips. He says he has done in his job in ensuring their hourly wage, so it is up to the other tables for the other hours the server is on shift. This guy is a master at debate. I have yet to be able to challenge him on this. I always lose to his arguments, but it sure as shit is a fun debate. I wish I could bring him here for this thread. I love to see how that would turn out. LOL

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

This is completely false.

Not liking somebody because the colour of there skin, is racist. Acting like your race is superior to another, is racist.

Recognizing cultural differences is not.

Stop me if I'm using words you don't understand. By definition, making an assumption about an individual based on the colour of their skin is racist.

Skin colour is not a cultural difference. For example, a black man you meet may be Jamaican, he may be Nigerian, he may be British, he may be from East York, and he could be from any number of other places each with a different culture. When you assume that the Black man will behave a certain way, you have allowed prejudice to cloud your judgment.

Those who don't understand this fact should sit quietly on the sidelines of this discussion until they learn the meaning of racism.

 

[Blue-Spheroid]

Stop the story right here

People leaving tips at a buffet restaurant where they serve themselves???

Seriously???

If there are waitstaff in the restaurants and they bring you drinks, extras (no, not that kind) and clear your plates then you are being served at your table and should leave a tip.

Many people choose to tip a lower percentage at buffets but at some of the more elaborate buffet restaurants, the wait staff can make or break the experience and they deserve to be tipped.

 

[JamesDouglas]

The solution to eliminating the tipping quagmire is simple. The Employment Standards Act should be revised mandating restaurant owners to pay servers at least minimum wage. If this happened it would take out the guesswork with regards to tipping, eliminate awkwardness, and avoid embarrassment from dining patrons who come from cultures where tipping is not expected.

Of course menu items would rise in price to make up for the extra few bucks/hour that restaurant owners would be forced to pay their servers, but it would serve everyone well in the long run.