I agree that he isn't the victim here. He shouldn't be the story either and to focus the majority of the attention on him is the very mistake that doesn't solve the issue. As I stated in an earlier post, people need to look very deep at this - there are literally thousands of people complicit in this crime. It is one thing when there are a few people that sweep it under the rug, just isn't the case here. The why needs to be totally understood and addressed - if not there will be a repeat that will lead to more of the real victims.
Penn State Scandal
- Thread starter Ironhead
- Start date
I agree that he isn't the victim here. He shouldn't be the story either and to focus the majority of the attention on him is the very mistake that doesn't solve the issue. As I stated in an earlier post, people need to look very deep at this - there are literally thousands of people complicit in this crime. It is one thing when there are a few people that sweep it under the rug, just isn't the case here. The why needs to be totally understood and addressed - if not there will be a repeat that will lead to more of the real victims.
Hold on there speedy.
How did you get to 'thousands' ?... there are literally thousands of people complicit in this crime.
Just for you Pokey. Multiple victims - police investigation, school investigation, now rumours several years of players knew - it goes on. The guy was sanctioned - people ask questions when that happens. Many, many people knew - how many people did you think knew? The number can go past the number of fingers you have.Hold on there speedy.
How did you get to 'thousands' ?
Just for you Pokey. Multiple victims - police investigation, school investigation, now rumours several years of players knew - it goes on. The guy was sanctioned - people ask questions when that happens. Many, many people knew - how many people did you think knew? The number can go past the number of fingers you have.
Yes, thanks for this incredibility informative piece of information, but, believe it or not, I did figure that much out myself.The number can go past the number of fingers you have.
Please tell me this is a misprint, or misunderstanding on my part. You did not blame the victims ?Multiple victims
The cops ? If they investigated and found nothing, or not enough evidence, what could they do.police investigation
The local DA says there is no where near enough evidence to charge him, what more could the cops do.
OK, but how many could there have been ?school investigation
I did not hear this rumour, but OK.now rumours several years of players knew
Players hear a rumour ... and .... ?
They are supposed to 'take the ball and run with it' when the adults coaching the team and running the school chose not to do anything ?
KNEW ? For sure knew ?how many people did you think knew?
Now ? ... anyone who follows NCAA sports, watches/listen to sports on TV or the radio, anyone who watches new casts ...
on the entire planet.
Then ? .... maybe a couple of dozen or more, who had the ability to stop this then. This is to say people who could be considered to be guilty to some degree.
A good article discussing the possible extent to which this tragedy was known. Fucktards like Ironhead may need to even use his toes to count.
In April, Pittsburgh radio host Mark Madden wrote a story revealing Penn State for much of the cover-up of Jerry Sandusky's alleged child rape that has been exposed in the past week. While it didn't raise many eyebrows back then, six months later it looks to be incredibly accurate.
On Thursday morning, just hours after legendary head coach Joe Paterno and university president Graham Spanier were fired by the school's board of trustees, Madden was asked on WEEI's The Dennis and Callahan Show what he believes the next piece of news will be.
What he said was twice as shocking as anything that's been released thus far.
"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."
After the news spread, Madden later explained via Twitter why he went public with the rumors.
"I normally abhor giving RUMORS credence," Madden wrote. "But whole Sandusky scandal started out as a RUMOR. It gets deeper and more disgusting all the time. One of state's top columnists investigating. That adds credence. I am NOT rumor's original source. [Why does] Sandusky deserve benefit of doubt?"
Madden also spoke more definitively on Dennis and Callahan to the cover-up efforts at the school and beyond that he expects will be made public soon.
"The other thing I think that may eventually become uncovered, and I talked about this in my original article back in April, is that I think they'll find out that Jerry Sandusky was told that he had to retire in exchange for a cover-up," Madden said. "If you look at the timeline, that makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
"My opinion is when Sandusky quit, everybody knew -- not just at Penn State," Madden added. "I think it was a very poorly kept secret about college football in general, and that is why he never coached in college football again and retired at the relatively young age of 55. [That's] young for a coach, certainly."
In April, Pittsburgh radio host Mark Madden wrote a story revealing Penn State for much of the cover-up of Jerry Sandusky's alleged child rape that has been exposed in the past week. While it didn't raise many eyebrows back then, six months later it looks to be incredibly accurate.
On Thursday morning, just hours after legendary head coach Joe Paterno and university president Graham Spanier were fired by the school's board of trustees, Madden was asked on WEEI's The Dennis and Callahan Show what he believes the next piece of news will be.
What he said was twice as shocking as anything that's been released thus far.
"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."
After the news spread, Madden later explained via Twitter why he went public with the rumors.
"I normally abhor giving RUMORS credence," Madden wrote. "But whole Sandusky scandal started out as a RUMOR. It gets deeper and more disgusting all the time. One of state's top columnists investigating. That adds credence. I am NOT rumor's original source. [Why does] Sandusky deserve benefit of doubt?"
Madden also spoke more definitively on Dennis and Callahan to the cover-up efforts at the school and beyond that he expects will be made public soon.
"The other thing I think that may eventually become uncovered, and I talked about this in my original article back in April, is that I think they'll find out that Jerry Sandusky was told that he had to retire in exchange for a cover-up," Madden said. "If you look at the timeline, that makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
"My opinion is when Sandusky quit, everybody knew -- not just at Penn State," Madden added. "I think it was a very poorly kept secret about college football in general, and that is why he never coached in college football again and retired at the relatively young age of 55. [That's] young for a coach, certainly."
Jeez, forgive me for asking a question of a person of your stature, Mr Fanofdo. My apologies. I shall never venture down that path again.A good article discussing the possible extent to which this tragedy was known. Fucktards like Ironhead may need to even use his toes to count.
To everyone else, I think Sandusky should get more then whatever he ends up getting. He deserves everything he gets. I hope it is at least 20 years. As for everyone else who may be facing charges, or should be facing charges, I do not think it is much more then a few dozen.
He should get the same sentence as Madroff. Hope none of the victims committed suicide or attempted suicide. Heard that many of the fans will wear blue to to-day's game to sympathize with the victims.To everyone else, I think Sandusky should get more then whatever he ends up getting. He deserves everything he gets. I hope it is at least 20 years.
I'm somewhat shocked that Sandusky hasn't offed himself yet. You'd think he would've eaten a gun by now.He should get the same sentence as Madroff. Hope none of the victims committed suicide or attempted suicide. Heard that many of the fans will wear blue to to-day's game to sympathize with the victims.
Here is the Grand Jury report. http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/feature?section=news&id=8421115 Reading it makes me want to throw up and is certainly an eye-opener.
Penn State has always been my favorite college football team ever since I can remember. A huge part of that appeal was due to the timeless father figure of Joe Paterno who coached the team with with workmanlike determination and great character. In reading the Grand Jury report, it becomes apparent that the leadership of the university simply wanted this matter to go away by implying to Sandusky to just not bring his act to the department facilities anymore. However, they were even ineffective in accomplishing this simple and wholly inadequate goal, which in itself, was bereft of morality. To know someone is raping little boys on school grounds and to somehow be okay with that person keeping his job, well, how do you face that person each day knowing this? And most importantly how do you live with yourself knowing that it is likely to happen again?
I have lost all respect for those involved, especially Paterno. He yielded great power at the Penn State and I would think in some fashion, even greater than the people he reported to. He was Penn State. He was their idol and their moral compass and in the end he didn't just show bad judgment. He utterly failed in his moral duty a leader, as a father, as a role model, and as a human being. The measures to deal with this group should be draconian. Clear out all those who knew and let it continue through their silence. Every single one of them. They had a duty to defend the defenseless and they failed miserably, choosing football instead.
Hopefully there is a sense of morality at Penn State that will allow the school itself to survive. Hopefully there is a soul among its community that values humanity and dignity and the protection of the innocent above all else; above football, above reputation, above everything.
Penn State has always been my favorite college football team ever since I can remember. A huge part of that appeal was due to the timeless father figure of Joe Paterno who coached the team with with workmanlike determination and great character. In reading the Grand Jury report, it becomes apparent that the leadership of the university simply wanted this matter to go away by implying to Sandusky to just not bring his act to the department facilities anymore. However, they were even ineffective in accomplishing this simple and wholly inadequate goal, which in itself, was bereft of morality. To know someone is raping little boys on school grounds and to somehow be okay with that person keeping his job, well, how do you face that person each day knowing this? And most importantly how do you live with yourself knowing that it is likely to happen again?
I have lost all respect for those involved, especially Paterno. He yielded great power at the Penn State and I would think in some fashion, even greater than the people he reported to. He was Penn State. He was their idol and their moral compass and in the end he didn't just show bad judgment. He utterly failed in his moral duty a leader, as a father, as a role model, and as a human being. The measures to deal with this group should be draconian. Clear out all those who knew and let it continue through their silence. Every single one of them. They had a duty to defend the defenseless and they failed miserably, choosing football instead.
Hopefully there is a sense of morality at Penn State that will allow the school itself to survive. Hopefully there is a soul among its community that values humanity and dignity and the protection of the innocent above all else; above football, above reputation, above everything.
It would not surprise me if more people were involved.
Its harder to investigate old crimes then closer to when they took place in 2003--4, whenever the word was getting around there was some child abuse happening. Its harder to look back 15 years ago, then 5 years ago.
My gut feeling is when people keep their mouths shut about a crime it is when they fear somebody they love might be involved also or they are guilty as well.
We had least 8 adults not tipping off the police, WHY, who were they protecting by keeping quiet--just the one person or others?
Heck I don't know much about the coach who is 84 years old, maybe he has always been an upstanding person but I just wounder if any other child sex crimes took place back in the 60's, 70's, 80's.
The past victims way back then might now have a wife for the last 10--20 years and have kids and not want to speak up cause nobody knows about it and they got a happy good life, why screw it up.
If shit did happen 30 years ago, who cares about sending an old man to pirson, he got away with it and lived his life.
I like to see a clean sweep of Penn State. Maybe it be unfair but it be a sure way to clean up to place.
Its harder to investigate old crimes then closer to when they took place in 2003--4, whenever the word was getting around there was some child abuse happening. Its harder to look back 15 years ago, then 5 years ago.
My gut feeling is when people keep their mouths shut about a crime it is when they fear somebody they love might be involved also or they are guilty as well.
We had least 8 adults not tipping off the police, WHY, who were they protecting by keeping quiet--just the one person or others?
Heck I don't know much about the coach who is 84 years old, maybe he has always been an upstanding person but I just wounder if any other child sex crimes took place back in the 60's, 70's, 80's.
The past victims way back then might now have a wife for the last 10--20 years and have kids and not want to speak up cause nobody knows about it and they got a happy good life, why screw it up.
If shit did happen 30 years ago, who cares about sending an old man to pirson, he got away with it and lived his life.
I like to see a clean sweep of Penn State. Maybe it be unfair but it be a sure way to clean up to place.
The problem in all of this is the difference between what the law requires and what is the moral and right thing to do. Coach Paterno did precisely what the law in Pennsylvania required him to do as a Coach, he reported the allegation to the Athletic Director and the Vice-President responsible. He is now being "punished" because the University's Board of Trustees do not want to take the "heat" for what the public sees as a lack of moral judgment and a poorly drafted Pennsylvania law.
Further, may I point out that in every North American jurisdiction I am aware of, if one of us saw some bozo punch a woman in the face and did not notify police you have not committed any crime by failing to report the assault (and battery).
What comes into play in the Penn State situation are "mandatory reporting statutes." As mentioned above Pennsylvania has a broad but limited reporting statute: in other words University and College Coaches are mandatory reporters of suspected child abuse, but are required to notify only their own academic administration. Most other states which require mandatory reporters to notify police, exclude universities, limiting mandatory reporters of child abuse (both physical and sexual) to elementary and secondary school teachers, administrators and coaches, as well as medical personnel (including psychologists). So that a university football coach would likely still not be legally required to have reported these allegations to police.
Further coming into play here are U.S. Federal Laws mandating that universities which receive federal funds must have in place policies regarding reporting of sex crimes on campus to the appropriate police.
Now common sense, not to mention morality absolutely indicate that the the Athletic Director and Vice-President should have promptly phoned the University's Police Chief and asked him to come over for a conversation!
Further, may I point out that in every North American jurisdiction I am aware of, if one of us saw some bozo punch a woman in the face and did not notify police you have not committed any crime by failing to report the assault (and battery).
What comes into play in the Penn State situation are "mandatory reporting statutes." As mentioned above Pennsylvania has a broad but limited reporting statute: in other words University and College Coaches are mandatory reporters of suspected child abuse, but are required to notify only their own academic administration. Most other states which require mandatory reporters to notify police, exclude universities, limiting mandatory reporters of child abuse (both physical and sexual) to elementary and secondary school teachers, administrators and coaches, as well as medical personnel (including psychologists). So that a university football coach would likely still not be legally required to have reported these allegations to police.
Further coming into play here are U.S. Federal Laws mandating that universities which receive federal funds must have in place policies regarding reporting of sex crimes on campus to the appropriate police.
Now common sense, not to mention morality absolutely indicate that the the Athletic Director and Vice-President should have promptly phoned the University's Police Chief and asked him to come over for a conversation!
O
OnTheWayOut
I've been a Penn State and JoePa fan all my life. I was so proud that they were a mostly annual fixture in the top 25, many years in the top 10 and national champs (and jobbed out of a couple more) without resorting to the sort of scandals that plague lots of programs. I was even nervous that if JoePa didn't retire soon that some silly NCAA violation would be committed by one of his underlings to tarnish his impeccable record. He WAS Penn State.
Well, he did it himself 9 years ago by not going far enough when he was told about Sandusky. There are lots of facts still to be found and lots of stories flying around and it is hard to know which are true. We most likely will never know the complete story and to what extent PS tried to bury all this. Story has it Paterno banned Sandusky from bringing kids on the campus but still allowed him to use the facilities up to his arrest. Obviously JoePa had reason to ask him not to be with kids. But then why did he encourage people and his players to support Second Mile?
I heard a report that in cases such as this the AVERAGE number of victims is 107. ONE HUNDRED FUCKING SEVEN!!! Lord knows I hope that isn't the case here but with all the layers of coverup and people involved this could be mind numbing.
Since 1998 untold numbers of people could have ended this monster's party and saved dozens or possibly hundreds of kids from abuse. JoePa was just one of them but as much as I admired this man he had to be fired. How McCreary isn't fired and only suspended is a mystery, he was even more culpable as he was THERE and could have stopped Sandusky in the act once.
This is bad now but as lots of people fear this is most likely the tip of the iceburg. All those poor kids, and for those since 1998 and/or 2002 could have been avoided if someone, ANYONE had come forward. I sincerely hope this wasn't a large scale ring as Madden implies or even that Sandusky didn't hit the average of over 100 victims. Even one child abused is too many, this is just unbelievably sad and disturbing.
I still rooted for Penn State and sad they lost today but it all seems pretty irrelevant at the moment. All those poor young kids ...... rot in hell Sandusky.
Well, he did it himself 9 years ago by not going far enough when he was told about Sandusky. There are lots of facts still to be found and lots of stories flying around and it is hard to know which are true. We most likely will never know the complete story and to what extent PS tried to bury all this. Story has it Paterno banned Sandusky from bringing kids on the campus but still allowed him to use the facilities up to his arrest. Obviously JoePa had reason to ask him not to be with kids. But then why did he encourage people and his players to support Second Mile?
I heard a report that in cases such as this the AVERAGE number of victims is 107. ONE HUNDRED FUCKING SEVEN!!! Lord knows I hope that isn't the case here but with all the layers of coverup and people involved this could be mind numbing.
Since 1998 untold numbers of people could have ended this monster's party and saved dozens or possibly hundreds of kids from abuse. JoePa was just one of them but as much as I admired this man he had to be fired. How McCreary isn't fired and only suspended is a mystery, he was even more culpable as he was THERE and could have stopped Sandusky in the act once.
This is bad now but as lots of people fear this is most likely the tip of the iceburg. All those poor kids, and for those since 1998 and/or 2002 could have been avoided if someone, ANYONE had come forward. I sincerely hope this wasn't a large scale ring as Madden implies or even that Sandusky didn't hit the average of over 100 victims. Even one child abused is too many, this is just unbelievably sad and disturbing.
I still rooted for Penn State and sad they lost today but it all seems pretty irrelevant at the moment. All those poor young kids ...... rot in hell Sandusky.
Since when does breaking the law deem if one should be fired? Whether he followed the law, or the law was poorly designed -- really who cares. He showed poor moral judgment.The problem in all of this is the difference between what the law requires and what is the moral and right thing to do. Coach Paterno did precisely what the law in Pennsylvania required him to do as a Coach, he reported the allegation to the Athletic Director and the Vice-President responsible. He is now being "punished" because the University's Board of Trustees do not want to take the "heat" for what the public sees as a lack of moral judgment and a poorly drafted Pennsylvania law.
Poor moral judgment is certainly a reason one can be fired.
Which is true. However, if you were in a situation where you followed the law, lets say you even consulted a lawyer and then years latter you were fired because having but followed the law was highly unpopular would you feel that your firing was right and just? Particularly so when you had already given notice of your retirement.Since when does breaking the law deem if one should be fired? Whether he followed the law, or the law was poorly designed -- really who cares. He showed poor moral judgment.
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In another unrelated point: I truly hope that Pennsylvania State University has actually appointed an Interim President rather than hiring a new President with no national search and after but a day's consideration!
I guess your getting into the legalities of wrongful dismissal. But if Penn St. pays out all of the remaining contractual obligations to Paterno, wrongful dismissal I would think is out of the picture -- I assume they will pay out those obligations to avoid any further news.Which is true. However, if you were in a situation where you followed the law, lets say you even consulted a lawyer and then years latter you were fired because having but followed the law was highly unpopular would you feel that your firing was right and just? Particularly so when you had already given notice of your retirement.
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In another unrelated point: I truly hope that Pennsylvania State University has actually appointed an Interim President rather than hiring a new President with no national search and after but a day's consideration!
As for Joe Paterno giving his resignation after the year - the relevant question was what is the impact if Joe Paterno ever stepped on the field again. Letting him coach the rest of the year, would have been the same as letting him stay for another 10 years. Once he came back for one game the message would be clear... and the damage would be fully done
His making a statement that he made the decision to stay on for a few more games, and that the board should basically take it easy, was the ultimate show in arrogance. It was no longer his choice at this point.
That's actually incorrect. Prosecutors don't appear to be going after him at this point, but he did not follow the law and in fact, he may still face criminal charges and has hired a criminal defense attorney.Which is true. However, if you were in a situation where you followed the law, lets say you even consulted a lawyer and then years latter you were fired because having but followed the law was highly unpopular would you feel that your firing was right and just? Particularly so when you had already given notice of your retirement.
According to a story on SI.com, Paterno could be brought up on charges of perjury, obstruction of justice and violating the state's Child Protective Services Law. The reports said that Paterno could also become a defendant in civil lawsuits filed by Sandusky's alleged victims.
Who knows about the perjury and obstruction charges, but it seems indisputable at this point that he failed to report the abuse to police, which he was obligated to do under the Child Protective Services Law.
So he followed the chain of command, but not the law.
O
OnTheWayOut
I'm not a lawyer but from what I'm hearing JoePa was not required by law to go to the police, he was required by law to do exactly what he did, go to the AD. The university dropped the ball and did not do it's legal obligations. That's why the Grand Jury did not go after Joe but did go after the ones he reported it to. Every report I've read agrees Joe did what he was required by law. I would guess he retained the attorney as a precaution against civil action which is not required to show illegality, just negligence of some sort.Who knows about the perjury and obstruction charges, but it seems indisputable at this point that he failed to report the abuse to police, which he was obligated to do under the Child Protective Services Law.
So he followed the chain of command, but not the law.
This does not change the fact that Joe (among many others) had a MORAL obligation to ensure his report to the AD was acted upon for the welfare of the child and those that followed due to their inaction. And Joe has admitted as much with his "in hindsight I wish I had done more" comment. Making that comment is enough to let the sharks circle and open him up for civil damages. He is aware he could have done more, even if not required by law. But he is not alone in that, the list I'm afraid will grow to staggering proportions. Hell, even a DA had a chance to stop Sandusky in the 90s and dropped the ball. How a guy can have so many things reported and investigations against him be allowed to go on as long as he did is beyond belief.
Read the 23 page Grand Jury report. http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/feature?...ews&id=8421115 Words cannot express how that made me feel after reading it.
