What argument are trying to distract with now?
My argument is that the 407ETR is not under-utilized.
Oh right...it's a highway outside of downtown Toronto that doesn't exist. Gotcha.
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My argument is that the 407ETR is not under-utilized.
Oh right...it's a highway outside of downtown Toronto that doesn't exist. Gotcha.
Why would you make such a stupid argument?
Oh right, because otherwise you'd have to admit the NDP have a smart idea.
According to your pal Frankfooter, what happens outside of downtown Toronto doesn't matter and doesn't really count. So you should chat with him about that.
If it wasn't for businesses, you wouldn't have taxpayers. I wouldn't call business owners elitists. I would call them providers.
The topic was about your comment that the 407ETR is "under-utilized". The data says otherwise.
You want to talk about businesses and travel expenses...start another thread.
Well, should we listen to your opinion or should we listen to a group that did actual research and understand the issues?
Such a tough choice.
A new report has been released entitled The Freight Escape: How to Get Trucks Off the 401 Without Blowing a Hole in the Greenbelt.
This report was commissioned by Environmental Defence with input from Transport Action Ontario and you can access this report here.
The report finds that subsidizing the toll on the 407 ETR is cheaper, easier, and better for the trucking industry than building the proposed Highway 413. It also shows that moving trucks from Highway 401 to the 407 will alleviate congestion for all road users and reduce journey times for truck drivers. This would also make building the proposed Highway 413 unnecessary, save taxpayers at least $6 billion (based on 2018 estimates), and conserve valuable natural spaces including 2000 acres of farmland and 400 acres of Greenbelt.
The Freight Escape report finds that moving trucks to the 407 will:
- Move 12,000 to 21,000 trucks a day off Highway 401, reducing daily traffic for passenger vehicles
- Cost $6 billion less than constructing the proposed Highway 413. Subsidizing the 407 trucking toll is estimated to cost $4 billion, which would be paid over a 30 year period. The Ontario government has not revealed a cost estimate for building Highway 413, but estimates cited in the media are as high as $10 billion
- Reduce cost and journey time for truck drivers: using Highway 407 will improve journey times for truckers by approximately 80 minutes, which would be less than half the length of time than the equivalent trip on Highway 401
- Conserve local natural spaces and local food production – including 2000 acres of farmland and 400 acres of Greenbelt land that would be paved by Highway 413.
Yes, it identifies where the stupidity in this argument lies.
And its not with the party that researched the issue and came up with a detailed plan.
Tell me...who is going to "subsidize" this stupid plan?
Assuming the answer is taxpayers.
NDP...always spending other people's money.
Its cheaper than DoFo's highway 413.
Right wingers just aren't good with economics, money or numbers in general.
The controversial Highway 413 discussion has nothing to do with Downtown Toronto. It is a waste of taxpayers money with a very poor intention to develop the Greenbelt Environment, especially when existing infrastructure such as The 407ETR exists!!
The 407ETR is under utilized. Outside the rush hours there are just a handful of cars using this highway, whereas the 401 is congested most of the daytime and evenings outside rush hours.
Do you think that the average Canadian can afford paying around $500 - $1000+ per month to regularly use this Highway? The highest toll highways in the world. Why did even someone like Doug Ford criticize the sweetheart deal in the manner that it was leased?
The fact is that Amsterdam has preserved its unique infrastructure. Thankfully, it did not go with the planned Highway Construction planned by The Americans that would have ruined the uniqueness of this wonderful City. Contrary to your assumption it has bike lanes that were resurrected due to the protests from the citizens of that City that prevented the decimation of this beautiful city. I loved walking in that City and taking in the landscape. There are no plans to develop the sea. Yes, the land is practically at sea level and there is a constant flooding danger although they have a flooding prevention barrier, due to the rising sea levels and impacts from the Climate Change!! After all dutch..... you have to try for once to go with the actual facts:
Also, dutch you are wrong as to the number one export from The Netherlands. it is:
Netherlands Exports
Exports in Netherlands increased to 68195 EUR Million in February from 66048 EUR Million in January of 2024. This page provides the latest reported value for - Netherlands Exports - plus previous releases, historical high and low, short-term forecast and long-term prediction, economic calendar...
tradingeconomics.com
The Netherlands are really going Green at quite a pace:
Nearly half the electricity produced in the Netherlands is now renewable
In 2023, 48 percent of electricity was generated from renewable sources such as solar, wind and water.
www.cbs.nl
So, do you believe that Amsterdam and The Netherlands are going in the wrong direction?
That was a response to your biased comment about right wingers who you claim are not good with economics.
I don't recall any right wingers saying the "budget will balance itself" or "the economy is not numbers, it's people"...do you?
You're 'distracting'.
Why do you keep pushing for the more expensive and stupider choice, the 413 against a smarter and cheaper option?
Its like your arguments against bike lanes, also stupid and without any evidence.
Ever wonder how much GO train expenses are? How much do you think someone coming from outside Toronto into the city and back spends on fares in a month?
Here, I'll give you an estimate: $20 per day x 20 weekdays = $400.
So comparing costs is not a good argument considering other factors such as reliability, convenience, time, etc.
413 is needed. More roads and highways are also needed. Vehicles are not going away.
About 65% of the households in Toronto have a car. And because of the lack of reliability of our transit system they will continue to keep their car, even if it costs them so much more.
The $400 is inclusive of taxes etc. Now the 407ETR will be close to $1000 just to use the 407ETR. On top of that you have gasoline, and the more you use the car, then Service the car etc
Travel for that month will be closer to $1500 plus additional costs on the cars for the high mileage, not to mention depreciation of the car value for high mileage cars. Hence much more expensive if you are a daily commuter vs those having to travel on the Go Train. Not to mention Parking Expenses if your company does not offer you Parking spaces That Highway 413 is just a waste of taxpayers cash and a threat to the Greenland!!
The only thing I proved that is stupid is you. No big challenge there mind you so I won't brag.
No.
You can't include gas, depreciation, etc because that applies to people who use the 401 as well.
Try and keep to the topic rather than expand it to come up with some kind of narrative that is apples-to-oranges and goes all over the place.
