Pope resigns, effective at the end of February

[Scarey]

Yeah It turns out he was trying to plant suitcase nuclear bombs in pro-gay cities. They caught him just in time.!!!!

No.It probably involved some scandal involving children..but I stand by my assessment.Say what you want about organized religion.They can keep their secrets....

 

[gcostanza]

The Pope can quit? WTF? He's Sarah Palin now? Guess the College of Cardinals will convene to elect the obvious replacement, Jerry Sandusky.

~Bill Maher ‏@billmaher

"Since the Manti Te'o thing the Pope has started to question a long-term relationship with someone he talks to, but has never actually met."

~Samantha Bee (The Daily Show)

 

[wigglee]

meet the new boss...same as the old boss

 

[erotq]

so the german pope is resigning? I did nazi that coming

lol nice!

 

[Bobzilla]

And for the more superstitious:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-strikes-vatican-day-pope-1704295

 

[rld]

Who could care less what or who thesis hollow institute picks as its leader or its policy. They spew old archaic ideas that hurt minorities and women and children all over the world. They're against birth control and condoms We should ban all reporting of any news to do with the Catholic Church and any other organization of religious superstition.
Bit since that wont happen. I'll just sit back and enjoy the stupid human show. Any one for a war or natural disaster ???? Count me in

They represent 1.3 billion people or so, and are probably the largest charitable organization in the world. They are responsible for feeding, healing and educating tens of millions of people a year.

I trust this pales beside your accomplishments.

 

[train]

They represent 1.3 billion people or so, and are probably the largest charitable organization in the world. They are responsible for feeding, healing and educating tens of millions of people a year.

I trust this pales beside your accomplishments.

I thought we established that in this country they don't heal or educate anymore. Why do I think that they also don't feed all that many people. We have done the Catholic Church bashing/defending thing before so no need to go through the litany of sins yet again.

Perhaps the next Pope will be a little more enlightened than this one was. He basically only apologized or took some minor action when absolutely forced to by alarmingly sinking revenues.

 

[Aardvark154]

Th Pope is elected.

non-hereditary would mean that.

 

[rld]

RLD: So that you know, I come from one of the most catholic countires in the world. When my grandfather was an eleven year old altar boy, his priest tried to bugger him up the ass after mass. My grandfather smacked him with a candle holder and got away. When the priest summoned my Great Grandfather to take my Grandfather to task, 3 other families showed up to the church in support of my family. One family had a baby from a 17 year old mother whom the priest had abused. There were 2 other girls that the priest had raped and of course, several little boys who were class mates of my grandfather and found the courage to speak up with my family's support. In her adolescence, my Mother had girlfriends abused as well. I even recall vividly a young friend of mine at the age of seven who was sodomized by his Parrish priest. Is it safe to say there's a pattern here?

The church dealt with the situation by simply sending the priest to another city. The church threatened to ex-communicate my family whereupon my Great Grandfather replied: "May I have a document to confirm that?". My Grandfather never set foot in a catholic church again and my family has since then led a happy Catholic/Guilt/Shame Free life.

While my Mother (this Grandfather's daughter) was in university, she looked into the history of Catholicism in our homeland. The atrocities that the Church and Franco connived together would sicken you into the next lifetime. The astounding amount of abused children and teenage girls is beyond what you can imagine. Not to mention censorship, cover ups, intimidation a outright lies. Education is a magnificent thing. It is the saving grace. Since my Grandfather's university days, my family has been devoted to the simple notion that Faith is what the human heart needs, not religion. Least of all Catholicism. Through education, faith and clarity has been paramount. That was the first of more than a few priests that my family ran out of town. Their hypocrisy and cruelty did them in, we just pointed it out.

They don't pay taxes and still demand money from the poor. They closed their doors to the Jews during WW2 and they still try to conduct themselves as if nothing is ever wrong. The very definition of Censorship. 'Accountability' is not in the catholic vocabulary.

According to you, I don't have the answer. At least not the answer you want. Perhaps the parents of any abused child, a single mother who gave her weekly wages as an offering or a Bishop who lives in Opulence has the answer you want.

Whatever it is, I hope you find it.

Your family can decide what it wants, but once again you simply prove you look at one side of the equation and not the other. You bring a heart felt bias to the issue.

The same things can be said about public schools, but I trust you don't think they should cease to exist.

As well you paint a fairly limited picture of the church experience in Spain over a limited period of time.

The Republican government which came to power in Spain in 1931 was strongly anti-clerical, secularising education, prohibiting religious education in the schools, and expelling the Jesuits from the country. On Pentecost 1932, Pope Pius XI protested against these measures and demanded restitution. He asked the Catholics of Spain to fight with all legal means against the injustices. June 3, 1933 he issued the encyclical Dilectissima Nobis, in which he described the expropriation of all Church buildings, episcopal residences, parish houses, seminaries and monasteries. By law, they were now property of the Spanish State, to which the Church had to pay rent and taxes in order to continuously use these properties. "Thus the Catholic Church is compelled to pay taxes on what was violently taken from her"[6] Religious vestments, liturgical instruments, statues, pictures, vases, gems and similar objects necessary for worship were expropriated as well.[7]
The Civil War in Spain started in 1936, during which thousands of churches were destroyed, thirteen bishops and some 7000 clergy and religious Spaniards were assassinated.[8] After that, Catholics largely supported Franco and the Nationalist forces in the Spanish Civil War of 1936 – 1939. It is estimated that in the course of the Red Terror, 6,832 members of the Catholic clergy were killed.[9] Another source breaks down the figures as follows: Some 283 religious women were killed. Some of them were severely tortured.[10] 13 bishops were killed from the dioceses of Siguenza, Lleida, Cuenca, Barbastro Segorbe, Jaén, Ciudad Real, Almeria, Guadix, Barcelona, Teruel and the auxiliary of Tarragona.[10] Aware of the dangers, they all decided to remain in their cities. For example, the Bishop of Cuenca said, I cannot go, only here is my responsibility, whatever may happen,[10] In addition 4172 diocesan priests, 2364 monks and friars, among them 259 Clarentians, 226 Franciscans, 204 Piarists, 176 Brothers of Mary, 165 Christian Brothers, 155 Augustinians, 132 Dominicans, and 114 Jesuits were killed.[11] In some dioceses, the majority of secular priests were killed:
In Barbastro 123 of 140 priests were killed.[10] about 88 percent of the secular clergy were murdered, 66 percent
In Lleida, 270 of 410 priests were killed.[10] about 62 percent
In Tortosa, 44 percent of the secular priests were killed.[9]
In Toledo 286 of 600 priests priests were killed.[10]
In the dioceses of Málaga, Menorca and Segorbe, about half of the priests were killed"[9][10]

Sounds like quite a party eh?

And since Vatican II we see a totally different church in Spain:

After the Second Vatican Council in 1965 set forth the church's stand on human rights, the Catholic Church in Spain moved from a position of unswerving support for Franco's rule to one of guarded criticism.
During the final years of the dictatorship, the church withdrew its support from the regime and became one of its harshest critics.
The Joint Assembly of Bishops and Priests held in 1971 marked a significant phase in the distancing of the church from the Spanish state. This group affirmed the progressive spirit of the Second Vatican Council and adopted a resolution asking the pardon of the Spanish people for the hierarchy's partisanship in the Civil War.
At the Episcopal Conference convened in 1973, the bishops demanded the separation of church and state, and they called for a revision of the 1953 Concordat. Subsequent negotiations for such a revision broke down because Franco refused to relinquish the power to veto Vatican appointments.

So, you, like many people, seem to be angry about a series of events that took place between about 1940 and 1965 or so. IT might be time to think about getting over it and moving on. Every culture has something historical where they were wronged. Healthy cultures get over it and move on.

How do you feel about the fact that it was the RCC in Spain that demanded the separation of church and state?

 

[Aardvark154]

I thought we established that in this country they don't heal or educate anymore.

Speak of the egocentric perspective.

 

[rld]

I thought we established that in this country they don't heal or educate anymore. Why do I think that they also don't feed all that many people. We have done the Catholic Church bashing/defending thing before so no need to go through the litany of sins yet again.

Perhaps the next Pope will be a little more enlightened than this one was. He basically only apologized or took some minor action when absolutely forced to by alarmingly sinking revenues.

Actually they do educate a lot of people here.

But the people they save all over the world don't count? IF they save thousands of lives in Africa...they don't count? They actually do feed millions on an annual basis, whether you take the time to learn what the facts are does not change them.

The funny thing is we live in a rich society with a great social safety net provided by our secular government. That is great for us. Most of the world does not have anything close to that. You just want to act like they don't exist. That is a little bizarre.

 

[Don Draper]

Your family can decide what it wants, but once again you simply prove you look at one side of the equation and not the other. You bring a heart felt bias to the issue.

The same things can be said about public schools, but I trust you don't think they should cease to exist.

As well you paint a fairly limited picture of the church experience in Spain over a limited period of time.

And since Vatican II we see a totally different church in Spain:

So, you, like many people, seem to be angry about a series of events that took place between about 1940 and 1965 or so. IT might be time to think about getting over it and moving on. Every culture has something historical where they were wronged. Healthy cultures get over it and move on.

How do you feel about the fact that it was the RCC in Spain that demanded the separation of church and state?

As far as the church is concerned, they must have this to say about you: 'God Bless You'!

Your ignorant denial and spin is exactly what they're depending on in order to protect a millennia of hypocrisy, a litany of criminals, child abusers and the continuing manipulation of the sick and defenseless.

I'm sure your next rebuttal will only confirm that further. A true example of catholic conditioning.

We're not talking about school boards, a certain period in a country's history, one family's perspective or forced bullshit spin like Vatican 2.

We're talking about the Catholic Church and all the heinous crimes they've committed and continue to commit to this day.

When you said that I must be upset about about "something that happened between 1940 and 1965 or so", it went to clarify your desperation and denial about your situation.

There is no hope for you if you believe anything the catholic church has to say. You made that perfectly clear. Oh, and the vatican says this to you: "Thanks".

 

[fmahovalich]

I get the jokes, the distain around priests that molest boys. The shame, the coverup, the anger over why it happened. The world is full of perverts, and people covering for them! I'm on board with the mistrust.

But let me address those who call for the Catholic Church to change..be more modern....in touch with times! I mean in terms of their teachings, hierarchy and dogma.

That is not a drastic change that is gonna occur after 2000 years.

Why would they? To what end?

Should Catholics become more Anglican? Methodist? Sikh? Muslim? Maybe they need to take on more secular values?

Think what you like about boys getting buggered, and churches need to change their approach on that issue! AMEN !!! Joke about child abuse all you like...it's insidious in all walks of life! Ask the Jehovah's! Ask the Muslims and their young Virgins! Ask Boy Scout leaders!

BUT

IF YOU ARE ASKING THEM TO BECOME MORE MODERN....TO GET WITH THE TIMES....THEN YOU HAVE TO ASK OTHERS TO 'conform' as well.

To what end? So that we all melt down into one belief? To have only secular values?

ask yourself....what should Catholics change...and if they did so, they would become more like??????? Then if Muslims changed in the same way.....to what???

Folks that can't happen. People are allowed to change..to move away from churches ...that is their right.

The church does not move to the people... so to speak.....people come to the church.

At the moment...secularism is winning.

i heard it once said........

TO THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE, THEY BETTER BE RIGHT!

 

[rld]

As far as the church is concerned, they must have this to say about you: 'God Bless You'!

Your ignorant denial and spin is exactly what they're depending on in order to protect a millennia of hypocrisy, a litany of criminals, child abusers and the continuing manipulation of the sick and defenseless.

I'm sure your next rebuttal will only confirm that further. A true example of catholic conditioning.

We're not talking about school boards, a certain period in a country's history, one family's perspective or forced bullshit spin like Vatican 2.

We're talking about the Catholic Church and all the heinous crimes they've committed and continue to commit to this day.

When you said that I must be upset about about "something that happened between 1940 and 1965 or so", it went to clarify your desperation and denial about your situation.

There is no hope for you if you believe anything the catholic church has to say. You made that perfectly clear. Oh, and the vatican says this to you: "Thanks".

So basic quotes about historical facts are spin?

The church in Spain calling for the separation of church and state is spin?

The murder of hundreds of priests and the war made against the Catholic church that drove them into the arms of Franco didn't happen?

These are all facts from mainstream historians.

Be as angry as you like, but don't pretend that you are remotely dealing with the real world. All you do is spew some vague generalities and when someone wants to discuss facts or events that really happened.

Your problem is that you cannot think beyond your hate. The RCC church has existed for hundreds of years, and done some very good things and some very bad things. But you simply refuse to acknowledge things that don't fit with your hate filled worldview. I would suggest that your problem borders on mental illness. A pity it is so common in an age in which hyper-partisanism trumps collecting facts or getting an education.

Doesn't it suck when someone puts up facts in the face of your bitter rant?

 

[rld]

I get the jokes, the distain around priests that molest boys. The shame, the coverup, the anger over why it happened. The world is full of perverts, and people covering for them! I'm on board with the mistrust.

But let me address those who call for the Catholic Church to change..be more modern....in touch with times! I mean in terms of their teachings, hierarchy and dogma.

That is not a drastic change that is gonna occur after 2000 years.

Why would they? To what end?

Should Catholics become more Anglican? Methodist? Sikh? Muslim? Maybe they need to take on more secular values?

Think what you like about boys getting buggered, and churches need to change their approach on that issue! AMEN !!! Joke about child abuse all you like...it's insidious in all walks of life! Ask the Jehovah's! Ask the Muslims and their young Virgins! Ask Boy Scout leaders!

BUT

IF YOU ARE ASKING THEM TO BECOME MORE MODERN....TO GET WITH THE TIMES....THEN YOU HAVE TO ASK OTHERS TO 'conform' as well.

To what end? So that we all melt down into one belief? To have only secular values?

ask yourself....what should Catholics change...and if they did so, they would become more like??????? Then if Muslims changed in the same way.....to what???

Folks that can't happen. People are allowed to change..to move away from churches ...that is their right.

The church does not move to the people... so to speak.....people come to the church.

At the moment...secularism is winning.

i heard it once said........

TO THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE, THEY BETTER BE RIGHT!

I have to disagree with you. The church, can and has changed in significant fashion, more than once. There is lots of need for change in the RCC and I am hopeful we will see more in the near future. IT will not become "secular", but it will change, as it should. For it not to change is to suggest that it is perfect, which is obviously impossible.

 

[Don Draper]

So basic quotes about historical facts are spin?

The church in Spain calling for the separation of church and state is spin?

The murder of hundreds of priests and the war made against the Catholic church that drove them into the arms of Franco didn't happen?

These are all facts from mainstream historians.

Be as angry as you like, but don't pretend that you are remotely dealing with the real world. All you do is spew some vague generalities and when someone wants to discuss facts or events that really happened.

Your problem is that you cannot think beyond your hate. The RCC church has existed for hundreds of years, and done some very good things and some very bad things. But you simply refuse to acknowledge things that don't fit with your hate filled worldview. I would suggest that your problem borders on mental illness. A pity it is so common in an age in which hyper-partisanism trumps collecting facts or getting an education.

Doesn't it suck when someone puts up facts in the face of your bitter rant?

As I said previously and you have confirmed: Your reply confirms ignorant denial.

I'm even a little surprised at how quickly it came.

Just remember this: You're the Catholic. I'm not.

 

[TeasePlease]

Th P ope is elected.

Yes, but from what pool of candidates?

Fmahovalich posts many good points. I'm not sure that secularism is winning. I hear many people professing a belief in God, but disenchangtment with organized religion. However, it is not clear whether that is because of the inherent faults of organized religion, or the contradictions of man (wanting spirituality but reluctant to concede to "rules").

 

[rld]

As I said previously and you have confirmed: Your reply confirms ignorant denial.

I'm even a little surprised at how quickly it came.

Just remember this: You're the Catholic. I'm not.

I knew a few facts would ruin your day.

I'll give you one more. I'm not a Catholic. Just someone with an education in history and a dislike for blind intolerance.

But perhaps you should get together with Gryph, he claimed I was a zionist for speaking out against anti-semitism.

 

[Aardvark154]

Yes, but from what pool of candidates?

Any baptized male Roman Catholic who has reached the age of reason, is not a heretic, is not in schism, and isn't living a notorious life.

(Then again no one who has not been a Cardinal has been elected since 1378, and the last layman elected was in 1024). And about the situation of a member of the "Eastern Catholic" or "Uniate" Churches I do not know.

 

[y2kmark]

How many Americans were treated in Catholic hospitals last year?

I have been numerous times (since it's, like, around the block it doesn't make sense to go anywhere else) and my insuror got a fat bill each time - hardly charitable institutions!:focus: