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Pope resigns, effective at the end of February

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
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Actually they do educate a lot of people here.

But the people they save all over the world don't count? IF they save thousands of lives in Africa...they don't count? They actually do feed millions on an annual basis, whether you take the time to learn what the facts are does not change them.

The funny thing is we live in a rich society with a great social safety net provided by our secular government. That is great for us. Most of the world does not have anything close to that. You just want to act like they don't exist. That is a little bizarre.
What about the millions of Africans they killed by advising against condom usage? ( I think they finally budged on that after the epidemic was way out of control) We can't move on though because the church has not fundamentally changed - they need to modernize . The vow of chastity is the core of the sexual deviancy problem...have they dealt with it and moved on? NO.

They discriminate against women...have they dealt with it? NO.

I suspect we have as much chance of seeing a progressive Pope emerge as we would have of seeing orange groves thrive on Baffin Isle
 

rld

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Oct 12, 2010
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What about the millions of Africans they killed by advising against condom usage? ( I think they finally budged on that after the epidemic was way out of control) We can't move on though because the church has not fundamentally changed - they need to modernize . The vow of chastity is the core of the sexual deviancy problem...have they dealt with it and moved on? NO.

They discriminate against women...have they dealt with it? NO.

I suspect we have as much chance of seeing a progressive Pope emerge as we would have of seeing orange groves thrive on Baffin Isle
Ah the old canards roll out.

I don't know a single theorist that believes that the vow of celibacy is what leads to child abuse. Child abuse happens at similar or higher rates than the RCC in all sorts of institutions that don't impose celibacy (by the by, the proper word is celibacy not chastity). This is something you want to believe, but certainly is not true or even well accepted.

Saying that the use of a condom is a sin in not killing someone. That is a moral teaching. That is what they believe and what they are entitled to believe and advocate. And you will be aware the A and B in ABC are both kind of important. Let me also ask you to do some hard work. Tell me if there is a correlation between the amount of Catholics in an African country and the rate of HIV infection. Or is it a negative correlation. I know, it takes work, but if you want to call an organization killers of millions it is the least you could do.

I guess you missed Vatican II if you think the church never has Popes who are reformers. But we will see who they elect this time around. I am really hoping for a non-european, it would be a good step forward.

And let me check, while I know you can point out the bad positions this Pope and the church have taken, what good ones have they taken?
 

train

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Jul 29, 2002
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Ah the old canards roll out.

I don't know a single theorist that believes that the vow of celibacy is what leads to child abuse. Child abuse happens at similar or higher rates than the RCC in all sorts of institutions that don't impose celibacy (by the by, the proper word is celibacy not chastity). This is something you want to believe, but certainly is not true or even well accepted.

?
Along with all the old carnds come the even lamer excuses. The Catholic Church does not have a chance in revitalizing its severely tarnished reputation until such time as its followers understand that the main problem, the biggest betrayal of public trust, was the systematic cover-up perpetuated by the church at the highest levels for decades. They have considered themselves "above the law" for so long I fear that they just don't understand this. It seems fairly clear that you don't.
 

Don Draper

Cufflinks & Cognac
Nov 24, 2009
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I knew a few facts would ruin your day.

I'll give you one more. I'm not a Catholic. Just someone with an education in history and a dislike for blind intolerance.

But perhaps you should get together with Gryph, he claimed I was a zionist for speaking out against anti-semitism.

The facts indeed, were presented by me. If you didn't pay attention to all the harm done to my friends and family, then your denial is even more severe than you probably even suspect.

Regardless of whether you are Catholic or not, your pathological need to defend an organization of this detestable (by their own doing) ilk speaks volumes regarding your damaged mind. It is inconceivable that in this day and age - that this organization does not belong to - anyone would think to willingly air their soiled laundry.

I will join in with the majority of educated members of society that are aware that birth control is necessary, pedophilia is unforgivable and the psychological abuse of the disenfranchised have no place in today's world and never have.

This group of people by far outnumber catholics or those who choose to defend them, on the planet.
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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If there was any sort of actual benevolence in the catholic church then this is what should really happen:


Until then, they are a hypocritical, poisonous organization that has done by far more harm than good and continue to do so.​

Absolute power corrupts. Done more harm than good? I'm not sure about that when you total all the charitable & missionary work they have done, but they are complicit in protecting pedophiles, so maybe.
 

rld

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Oct 12, 2010
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The facts indeed, were presented by me. If you didn't pay attention to all the harm done to my friends and family, then your denial is even more severe than you probably even suspect.

Regardless of whether you are Catholic or not, your pathological need to defend an organization of this detestable (by their own doing) ilk speaks volumes regarding your damaged mind. It is inconceivable that in this day and age - that this organization does not belong to - anyone would think to willingly air their soiled laundry.

I will join in with the majority of educated members of society that are aware that birth control is necessary, pedophilia is unforgivable and the psychological abuse of the disenfranchised have no place in today's world and never have.

This group of people by far outnumber catholics or those who choose to defend them, on the planet.
Oh...so my worldview should be shaped by the alleged experiences of your friends and family.

I guess the bad news for you is that the RC church has over a billion members and is growing.

I also suspect your education is not as shit hot as you suggest it is, based on your complete inability to deal with or discuss historical facts.

You are a typical angry chap, full of slogans, denying obvious realities, and completely unwilling to realize that all issues are not as black and white as you dream they are. You may need a simple comic book world of heroes and villains but unfortunately the world does not exist to indulge you.

And you cannot even articulate the contra positions properly. In the modern democratic thought process, birth control is not neccessary, it is a permissable choice. Only for social engineers and eugenicists is it necessary.

But you are very good at repeating some pejorative slogans...in bold type even! Very powerful stuff.
 

rld

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Oct 12, 2010
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Absolute power corrupts. Done more harm than good? I'm not sure about that when you total all the charitable & missionary work they have done, but they are complicit in protecting pedophiles, so maybe.
The individuals who were committing sex crimes, and protecting pedophiles should be punished to fullest extent of the law.

Just like teachers and administrators who did the same thing in the public school system.

IT should also be noted that the pedo problem in the RCC peaked around 1985 and has shrank to very, very small numbers now.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_of_Pope_Benedict_XVI

He will be the first Pope to not die in office in almost 700 years.

I saw Mea Maxima Culpa at the TIFF.

When Pope Benedict was a Cardinal, all cases of child abuse went to him. There's a nice clip of him almost hitting a reporter who was asking questions about the topic when he was Pope. There's also a growing protest movement in Italy against the RC Church about the lack of accountability, etc.
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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The individuals who were committing sex crimes, and protecting pedophiles should be punished to fullest extent of the law.

Just like teachers and administrators who did the same thing in the public school system.

IT should also be noted that the pedo problem in the RCC peaked around 1985 and has shrank to very, very small numbers now.

See Mea Maxima Culpa. It may be less, but the #s are in the thousands from the early days. The three adults who appeared as guests during the TIFF Q & A were the true stars to me because of their courage to speak about their abuse as children in the 50s and 60s. A young priest told me that the # of such pedophiles is a tiny minority of all the priests that do good in the Church and for their communities. Maybe so, but the whole organization is tainted when they cover-up the bad apples.
 

rld

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Oct 12, 2010
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I saw Mea Maxima Culpa at the TIFF.

When Pope Benedict was a Cardinal, all cases of child abuse went to him. There's a nice clip of him almost hitting a reporter who was asking questions about the topic when he was Pope. There's also a growing protest movement in Italy against the RC Church about the lack of accountability, etc.
Not actually true. Not all cases of child abuse went to the Rat when he was a cardinal. Only some. And the allegations against him in this regard are both close to trivial and not well supported.

And this point, on the issue of transparency, was the first Pope to allow outside officials to review many of their internal accounting systems and make much of the information public.

I look forward to seeing more about this growing protest movement.
 

Don Draper

Cufflinks & Cognac
Nov 24, 2009
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Oh...so my worldview should be shaped by the alleged experiences of your friends and family.

I guess the bad news for you is that the RC church has over a billion members and is growing.

I also suspect your education is not as shit hot as you suggest it is, based on your complete inability to deal with or discuss historical facts.

You are a typical angry chap, full of slogans, denying obvious realities, and completely unwilling to realize that all issues are not as black and white as you dream they are. You may need a simple comic book world of heroes and villains but unfortunately the world does not exist to indulge you.

And you cannot even articulate the contra positions properly. In the modern democratic thought process, birth control is not neccessary, it is a permissable choice. Only for social engineers and eugenicists is it necessary.

But you are very good at repeating some pejorative slogans...in bold type even! Very powerful stuff.
If you choose to ignore the damage caused to my family, friends and all the other millions of people throughout histroy who have suffered at their hands, then indeed, by your own admission, your world view is very skewed.

The church may have a million members, the vast majority of which reside in Latin America, where illiteracy is still sadly evident, the culture is poor and manipulation is quite simple due to the ignorance. The best hope of doing this is by conditioning children during their formative years. It's despicable. Before you claim superiority, be aware that I have many relatives throughout Latin America, catholic school matriculation is on the decline and churches are selling off their property due to diminishing congregations. The PR department of the RC church is doing all they can to spin this into their needs. It would make perfect sense that they would try and do that. The RC church is in decline.

If you want historical facts, the list is endless. You can start with Torquemada and go on from there. I speak from actual experience. Combine that with documented proof of lies, deceit and abuse and the truth will always win out.

It seems to me that your world is full of comic book villains. As much as you wish, those capes that they wear cannot make them fly.

What say you of a catholic clergyman who takes a vow of kindness, goodness and protection of the weak and defenceless and then abuses that confidence by raping a trusting and admiring child? What's worse than that? The organization that should hold him accountable instead protects him along with all the other criminals who did the same thing.

There are no words for that level of reprehension.

How do you spin that into redemption? What sort of damaged mind would try to do so!?

BTW, your statement about social engineers and eugenicists states that your mind is not on a level with reality.

There will be no more comments from me to you. You are in need of psychological assistance.
 
S

**Sophie**

They must have something Realllyyyyyyyy HUGE on him. No way, no pope would ever resign willingly.

Probably some sort of gaydom molestation going on, no doubt!
 

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
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If you choose to ignore the damage caused to my family, friends and all the other millions of people throughout histroy who have suffered at their hands, then indeed, by your own admission, your world view is very skewed.

The church may have a million members, the vast majority of which reside in Latin America, where illiteracy is still sadly evident, the culture is poor and manipulation is quite simple due to the ignorance. The best hope of doing this is by conditioning children during their formative years. It's despicable. Before you claim superiority, be aware that I have many relatives throughout Latin America, catholic school matriculation is on the decline and churches are selling off their property due to diminishing congregations. The PR department of the RC church is doing all they can to spin this into their needs. It would make perfect sense that they would try and do that. The RC church is in decline.

If you want historical facts, the list is endless. You can start with Torquemada and go on from there. I speak from actual experience. Combine that with documented proof of lies, deceit and abuse and the truth will always win out.

It seems to me that your world is full of comic book villains. As much as you wish, those capes that they wear cannot make them fly.

What say you of a catholic clergyman who takes a vow of kindness, goodness and protection of the weak and defenceless and then abuses that confidence by raping a trusting and admiring child? What's worse than that? The organization that should hold him accountable instead protects him along with all the other criminals who did the same thing.

There are no words for that level of reprehension.

How do you spin that into redemption? What sort of damaged mind would try to do so!?

BTW, your statement about social engineers and eugenicists states that your mind is not on a level with reality.

There will be no more comments from me to you. You are in need of psychological assistance.
Cars have caused plenty of damage to millions of people, but we keep them. But I sure as shit am not stupid enough to build my worldview around alleged events that happened to relatives of a anonymous internet poster.

By the way...it is BILLION not million (I am hoping the bold will help you read it). Here is a news flash for you...just because people come from a different culture from you does not mean they are stupid or inferior. You must have a pretty big ego to insult a billion or so people, and you are, as always, wrong about where the vast majority come from.

Torquemada is a fascinating example. He might have been responsible for the death of 1,000 people, and interestingly it was the Pope who restrained him because the secular spanish crown was getting carried away. That is less than the number of Catholic priests murdered in the Spanish civil war. I don't see your panties in a knot about those murders. Of course those murders were only 70 years ago, while you are obviously upset about acts that took place 500 years ago. That is healthy. Are you still pissed off about Caesar's invasion of your homeland or Napleon's?

Child abuse is always a terrible crime and the people who committ it should be punished. But the rate of child abuse in the RCC is less than that in public schools. Are you a hater of public schools as well?

I actually am very well versed in both sides of the church, not just an angry biased man who hates the church and is both arrogant and ignorant about it. As usual you spew a bunch of vague allegations but won't even mention how the church came to lead the opposition to Franco in Spain and advocated the separation of church and state.

You simply ignore the fact that this church is the largest charitable organization in the world, and feeds, educates and provides medical care to millions. You can ignore it, but it is real.

While you are quick to judge others, you really should consider some reality therapy yourself. Perhaps start by learning the history of your own country in the last century.
 

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
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See Mea Maxima Culpa. It may be less, but the #s are in the thousands from the early days. The three adults who appeared as guests during the TIFF Q & A were the true stars to me because of their courage to speak about their abuse as children in the 50s and 60s. A young priest told me that the # of such pedophiles is a tiny minority of all the priests that do good in the Church and for their communities. Maybe so, but the whole organization is tainted when they cover-up the bad apples.
The cover-ups are terrible and should be dealt with appropriately. So I guess we should eliminate the Canadian government, the US government, the public school systems in both countries...they all tainted as well?

The number of cases the Rat handled as Cardinal were very small. Not thousands. And most of the ones' the Rat handled had already been dealt with by the civil authorities. Are you suggesting the RCC has the power of the criminal courts?

I actually have ordered that DVD, I a looking forward to learning more about the issue.
 

thinktank217

Banned
Feb 11, 2013
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They must have something Realllyyyyyyyy HUGE on him. No way, no pope would ever resign willingly.

Probably some sort of gaydom molestation going on, no doubt!
Yeah they have a HUGGGGEEEE story. It will be so controversial it will tear the papacy apart. Here it is:
He had a pacemaker put in before he became Pope.

Wow. Shocking isn't it.
 
S

**Sophie**

Pope receives news of his warrant of arrest before resignation


...On February 4, a week before Pope Benedict XVI's resignation, Vatican allegedly received a note from an undisclosed European government that stated that there are plans to issue a warrant for the Pope's arrest. Addicting Info reports.
With his resignation announced, the former pope will have a meeting with the Italian President, Giorgio Napolitano on February 23 to beg for immunity against prosecution for allegations of child rape.

Benedict XVI was the first Pope to resign in 600 years, which shocked almost everyone. And he did so after panicking about an impending arrest in the midst of a hastily arranged meeting begging for protection from the Italian government....
 

buttercup

Active member
Feb 28, 2005
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We can't move on though because the church has not fundamentally changed - they need to modernize . The vow of chastity is the core of the sexual deviancy problem.
"The problem" with the Catholic church, or any church, is not the details of the doctrines - "the problem" is the basic notion that there is a chap upstairs who put people on the earth, and who decides for us what is sin and what isn't, and who listens to our prayers and sometimes answers them.

Once people come to terms with just how silly that is, the silliness of everything else religious falls into place.
 
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