UK using 'fake boundaries' in Iran dispute - former British envoy

[*d*]

It's 0 degrees 1' 40" south of the latitude you gave now what we need is the longitude.

The longitude coordinate for the most southern boundary point is 48 degrees 44' 45" E. So I believe 48 degrees 43' 08"E, where the hostage taking took place, is west of that. But the question remains. Is that Iraq waters when it's also south of the most southern boundary coordinate between Iran and Iraq?

 

[papasmerf]

Hopefully this helps
I am posting links to both Iran and Irac's Maritime boundries.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html


https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html

 

[persis]

You might want to consider the fact that not everyone is willing to offer up their friends in exchange for broken promises.

Being patriotic, having royalty to friends is fine… but please ask yourself at what cost?
After all this is a free country and we are perfectly entitle to demand justice and fair treatment of others even for those 3000 miles away!
We are also entitle to demand not to be lied and cheated or robed by our elected representatives because they happened to be leading our political party or have their own agenda… whatever that might be!

 

[papasmerf]

Being patriotic, having royalty to friends is fine… but please ask yourself at what cost?
After all this is a free country and we are perfectly entitle to demand justice and fair treatment of others even for those 3000 miles away!

That you do. And you can go to help.


Fact is your hate and anger is a tell-tale of who you are. This dispute over territorial waters is best settled by the INTERNATIONAL MARITIME COURT. Not here on TERB or in a media circus.

 

[*d*]

Hopefully this helps
I am posting links to both Iran and Irac's Maritime boundries.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ir.html


https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html

I'm not into trusting anything the CIA says. However I do agree that most countries have territorial sea claims of 12 nm from their shores. Iraq and Iran are no different. I suppose thats where their most southern boundary coordinate between them comes from. What I find interesting is something Iran has that Iraq does not and that's a contiguous zone of 24 nm.

contiguous zone - according to the UNCLOS (Article 33), this is a zone contiguous to a coastal state's territorial sea, over which it may exercise the control necessary to: prevent infringement of its customs, fiscal, immigration, or sanitary laws and regulations within its territory or territorial sea; punish infringement of the above laws and regulations committed within its territory or territorial sea; the contiguous zone may not extend beyond 24 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured (e.g. the US has claimed a 12-nautical mile contiguous zone in addition to its 12-nautical mile territorial sea).

Iran may have the right to reach for custom infringements up to 24 nm from its shores, taking it south of Iraq's territorial sea.

 

[papasmerf]

I'm not into trusting anything the CIA says. However I do agree that most countries have territorial sea claims of 12 nm from their shores. Iraq and Iran are no different. I suppose thats where their most southern boundary coordinate between them comes from. What I find interesting is something Iran has that Iraq does not and that's a contiguous zone of 24 nm.

Iran may have the right to reach for custom infringements up to 24 nm from its shores, taking it south of Iraq's territorial sea.

Actually *d* I was refered to that site off this page http://www.oceansatlas.org/servlet/...uX2luZm9fdmlld19mdWxsJjY9ZW4mMzM9KiYzNz1rb3M~
"UN ATLAS OF THE OCEANS"

 

[persis]

That you do. And you can go to help.


Fact is your hate and anger is a tell-tale of who you are. This dispute over territorial waters is best settled by the INTERNATIONAL MARITIME COURT. Not here on TERB or in a media circus.

Again you are doing it....What hate and anger are you talking about....?
Examining facts is not hate or anger.... it is clarification...of troubling issues that might have serious adverse consequences for all of us
When are we going to try to differentiate between lies and facts... even when it is not in our popular culture.... lying to justify an attack on a culture or demonizing all Iranians over 3000 miles away that is Hate and Anger...I say?
I tell you No Persians would stand for it even those who dislike the current gov of Iran

 

[*d*]

Actually *d* I was refered to that site off this page http://www.oceansatlas.org/servlet/...uX2luZm9fdmlld19mdWxsJjY9ZW4mMzM9KiYzNz1rb3M~
"UN ATLAS OF THE OCEANS"

After a closer look it seems the hostage taking was within 12 nm of Iraq and Iran. So it was inside territorial seas, but whos? Iran may believe it was in their seas because of their use of unconventional straight baselines to measure their territorial sea. They're not a party to the UNCLOS, so they may think they're not bound to the UNCLOS ways of measurement.
http://www.dur.ac.uk/ibru/resources/iran-iraq/

 

[papasmerf]

After a closer look it seems the hostage taking was within 12 nm of Iraq and Iran. So it was inside territorial seas, but whos? Iran may believe it was in their seas because of the use of straight baselines to measure their territory. They're not a party to the UNCLOS, so they may think they're not bound to the UNCLOS ways of measurement.
http://www.dur.ac.uk/ibru/resources/iran-iraq/

Based on th map you present. The incitdent occured in Iraqs boundries.

 

[*d*]

Based on th map you present. The incitdent occured in Iraqs boundries.

But as I said, Iran may believe its territoral waters are different compared to UNCLOS measurements.

 

[papasmerf]

But as I said, Iran may believe its territoral waters are different compared to the UNCLOS measurements.

Technicaly the boundry dispute falls under Maritime Court

 

[persis]

“The line the British government had produced has been drawn by the British government. They failed to say that and are trying to pass it off as an international boundary. So it is correct to say it fake. It is fake.

The point that the incident took place closer to Iranian land than Iraqi land to show that there are definitely genuine factors that could support such an argument, in the boundary determination that is yet to happen, that this location should be in Iranian waters.

To sum up the boundary lines produced by the British government are fake and have no legal authority whatsoever as there are absolutely no ‘Internationally agreed’ territorial demarcations in the Gulf.

For anyone to base this dispute on such fiction is complete insanity.

Given the unpredictability of the Iranians the Navy was pushing its luck. That's OK if you're on top of things, have sufficient resource and determination - and/or your surname is Nelson.” Craig Murray

 

[*d*]

“The line the British government had produced has been drawn by the British government. They failed to say that and are trying to pass it off as an international boundary. So it is correct to say it fake. It is fake.

The point that the incident took place closer to Iranian land than Iraqi land to show that there are definitely genuine factors that could support such an argument, in the boundary determination that is yet to happen, that this location should be in Iranian waters.

To sum up the boundary lines produced by the British government are fake and have no legal authority whatsoever as there are absolutely no ‘Internationally agreed’ territorial demarcations in the Gulf.

For anyone to base this dispute on such fiction is complete insanity.

Given the unpredictability of the Iranians the Navy was pushing its luck. That's OK if you're on top of things, have sufficient resource and determination - and/or your surname is Nelson.” Craig Murray

I do agree that there is "no internationally agreed territorial demarcation in the Gulf" as far as Iran is concerned. And maybe because of this boundary confusion, both sides of the hostage taking should show some consideration and not go off the deep end.

 

[danmand]

I do agree that there is "no internationally agreed territorial demarcation in the Gulf" as far as Iran is concerned. And maybe because of this boundary confusion, both sides of the hostage taking should show some consideration and not go off the deep end.

It is hard to believe that Iran would not be able to find a face saving explanation.
Or simply accept the sailors apologies, we have already seen two, and let them off.

 

[Aardvark154]

I'm not into trusting anything the CIA says. However I do agree that most countries have territorial sea claims of 12 nm from their shores. Iraq and Iran are no different. I suppose thats where their most southern boundary coordinate between them comes from. What I find interesting is something Iran has that Iraq does not and that's a contiguous zone of 24 nm.

Despite whatever one may feel possitively or negatively about the CIA the World Factbook and their maps are quite well respected.

 

[Aardvark154]

In an unsurprising piece of news The Times (London) reports that an internal power struggle is going on in Iran. 'Major-General Yahya Rahim Safavi the Commander of the Revolutionary Guards is said to have told the country’s Supreme National Security Council on Friday that the situation regarding the British hostages was “getting out of control” and urged its members to consider the immediate release of the prisoners to defuse tension in the Gulf.

However, Yadollah Javani, the head of the Revolutionary Guards’ political bureau, was said to have denounced Safavi accusing him of weakness and “liberal tendencies” and is said to be demanding the hostages be put on trial.'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1596694.ece

 

[Aardvark154]

The longitude coordinate for the most southern boundary point is 48 degrees 44' 45" E. So I believe 48 degrees 43' 08"E, where the hostage taking took place, is west of that. But the question remains. Is that Iraq waters when it's also south of the most southern boundary coordinate between Iran and Iraq?

0 degrees 2' 37" west of the longitute you gave.

 

[basketcase]

Again i'll remind that there was an agreed boundary in '75 and that agreement hasn't been replaced. That boundary is the line that is recognized as of now. It might have been withing 12 nm of Iran but also within 12 nm of Iraq so it is the agreed (though disputed) border between the two that takes precidence.

 

[WoodPeckr]

In an unsurprising piece of news The Times (London) reports that an internal power struggle is going on in Iran. 'Major-General Yahya Rahim Safavi the Commander of the Revolutionary Guards is said to have told the country’s Supreme National Security Council on Friday that the situation regarding the British hostages was “getting out of control” and urged its members to consider the immediate release of the prisoners to defuse tension in the Gulf.

However, Yadollah Javani, the head of the Revolutionary Guards’ political bureau, was said to have denounced Safavi accusing him of weakness and “liberal tendencies” and is said to be demanding the hostages be put on trial.'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1596694.ece

Not surprising at all. In fact a same 'power struggle' is taking place now right here in the USA between Team 'w' neocons and the Dems.
One could make the case that while,
"Yadollah Javani, the head of the Revolutionary Guards’ political bureau, was said to have denounced Safavi accusing him of weakness and “liberal tendencies” and is said to be demanding the hostages be put on trial.'"
That Yadollah Javani talks JUST LIKE DICK Cheney who basically says the SAME THING here in the USA about Nancy Pelosi and the Dems.

Apparently Iran has those that want to 'reign in' their radical-nutjobs just like here in the USA where the Dems are finally trying to 'reign in' our radical-nutjobs, the Team 'w' neocons.....

 

[papasmerf]

Woody,

you are no longer even a useful idiot. Your comparing the democrat party to the Iranian government is even too much for you.


What is worse is you seem to believe your ramblings