Why is there so much violent crime in America?
- Thread starter fuji
- Start date
LOL!danmand said:
bottie thinks he's clever everyday.
No one can polish turds better than bottie....
Why is the murder rate in the US so much higher than the murder rate in Toronto? It's 1.8 to 2.0 in Toronto. The US murder rate is two and a half times higher; even the murder rate you quoted for whites only in the US is 150% higher.onthebottom said:
Don't tell me that Toronto is less diverse than the US.
The number goes up because you are including a bunch of developing nations. Yes, US crime is similar to that in many developing nations if that is what you are trying to say. Why?onthebottom said:
Scroll down and look at the numbers for individual countries, you will see that the US has several times more violent crime than the average Western democracy and 50% more than the next most violent one.
I asked the question because every time I tried to link gun control to violence in the US I was told by some gun nut that the statistics didn't prove that--that something else causes all the violence. So what is it?
My own personal theory is, of course, that it has to do in large part with gun control, maginified by the lack of a decent social welfare system.
One of the prime arguments put forwrad by gun nuts is that the population needs guns in order to limit the power of government. Ed lepps likes to talk about how you need guns to defend against a tyrannical government.
Well it works! Enough people in the US have guns that they are able to undermine the rule of law.
One man's militia is another man's gang. One man's tea (as in tea party) is another man's crack cocaine. One many's tyranny is another man's war on drugs. Mix in a bunch of people who have been screwed over by a racist system and denied access to any decent form of social welfare, leaving them desperate.
Put it all together and you have some disenfranchised people who want to sell crack cocaine, perceive that the tyrannical government is trying to stop them, so they form a militia (oops, gang) to kill anyone--including any police--who stand in their way.
While the warlords in the US have not (yet) taken power away from the democratically elected government overall they sure have put a dent in it, and it shows up in violent crime stats.
Of course gun nuts will disagree and somehow say that guns are something that are only used against the government by good upstanding people who love democracy, and never by drug kingpins and warlords who hate it.
That's my view--however, if I'm wrong, if it's not gun control, if it's not lack of a decent social welfare system, then what is it?
My own personal theory is, of course, that it has to do in large part with gun control, maginified by the lack of a decent social welfare system.
One of the prime arguments put forwrad by gun nuts is that the population needs guns in order to limit the power of government. Ed lepps likes to talk about how you need guns to defend against a tyrannical government.
Well it works! Enough people in the US have guns that they are able to undermine the rule of law.
One man's militia is another man's gang. One man's tea (as in tea party) is another man's crack cocaine. One many's tyranny is another man's war on drugs. Mix in a bunch of people who have been screwed over by a racist system and denied access to any decent form of social welfare, leaving them desperate.
Put it all together and you have some disenfranchised people who want to sell crack cocaine, perceive that the tyrannical government is trying to stop them, so they form a militia (oops, gang) to kill anyone--including any police--who stand in their way.
While the warlords in the US have not (yet) taken power away from the democratically elected government overall they sure have put a dent in it, and it shows up in violent crime stats.
Of course gun nuts will disagree and somehow say that guns are something that are only used against the government by good upstanding people who love democracy, and never by drug kingpins and warlords who hate it.
That's my view--however, if I'm wrong, if it's not gun control, if it's not lack of a decent social welfare system, then what is it?
You're only slightly wrong....the primary CAUSE (IMHO) of the violence is socio-economic, the poor gun control only further enables and escalates the violence. With tighter gun control, some of the crimes would indeed never occur as the gun is a coward's weapon. A good portion of the crime would still exist but be commited with other weapons.fuji said:
Aardie's stats on the most violent crime taking place in localities with the most stringent gun laws are factually correct, but also conveniently omit that those are also typically the most poverty ridden areas. The poverty is the cause for the crime, but the perpetrators get their guns from places like Virginia, Georgia, and South Carolina. Guns are portable....poverty, not so much.
We need to address BOTH issues.
I think the gun control + socioeconomic factors explain why the murder rate is so high in poor areas.
Then there remains the question of why it is so high in affluent areas. While it is substantially lower than in poor areas, it is still a lot higher than the Canadian rate.
I suspect that in affluent areas it is simply the lack of gun control that leads to the violence.
However maybe somebody has a different explanation.
Then there remains the question of why it is so high in affluent areas. While it is substantially lower than in poor areas, it is still a lot higher than the Canadian rate.
I suspect that in affluent areas it is simply the lack of gun control that leads to the violence.
However maybe somebody has a different explanation.
You don't have a massive black or hispanic population in Toronto.fuji said:
Oh, where did you get the number for Toronto?
OTB
onthebottom said:
I don't see race as the key factor. I do see ignorance as being it. You can trace that to the parents and school systems.
Handguns have been banned in Washington DC for years (although that was just overturned) yet the murder rate was sky high? Why?fuji said:
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I think you're on the verge of a very profitable career as a defense lawyer defending drug thugs.fuji said:
OTB
What's a resonable welfare system?danmand said:
I think you can trace it all to a breakdown in the family in certain communities.
OTB
Top 10 murder cities in the US (2003) av/100k population:
1 New Orleans 52.3
2 Washington, D.C. 43.9
3 Detroit 41.8
4 Baltimore 38.7
5 Atlanta 34.0
6 St. Louis 32.5
7 Birmingham 30.3
8 Newark, NJ 28.2
9 Oakland, CA 24.6
10 Memphis 22.4
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1 New Orleans 52.3
2 Washington, D.C. 43.9
3 Detroit 41.8
4 Baltimore 38.7
5 Atlanta 34.0
6 St. Louis 32.5
7 Birmingham 30.3
8 Newark, NJ 28.2
9 Oakland, CA 24.6
10 Memphis 22.4
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