Why is there so much violent crime in America?

binderman

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onthebottom said:
Top 10 murder cities in the US (2003) av/100k population:

1 New Orleans 52.3
2 Washington, D.C. 43.9
3 Detroit 41.8
4 Baltimore 38.7
5 Atlanta 34.0
6 St. Louis 32.5
7 Birmingham 30.3
8 Newark, NJ 28.2
9 Oakland, CA 24.6
10 Memphis 22.4

OTB
All are hard blue forsaken liberal holes.
 

fuji

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onthebottom said:
Oh, where did you get the number for Toronto?
Google. It wasn't hard to find. "Murder rate per capita toronto". Feel free to use any of the top three links, they give number ranging from 1.8 to 2.0 (depending on the year in question).
 

Don

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The US is highly segregated with a large minority population with a lot of baggage. Also being the 2nd largest capitalist country (behind China), there is a larger gap between the rich and the poor. With a lot of poor = lot of crime.

With all of its faults I will say one thing... There are a lot of people who will lie, cheat, sneak, marry to get into the USA. Some of them are even Canadians I know. That speaks volumes about whether the USA is a place people what to be... high crime and wacky laws and all.
 

fuji

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onthebottom said:
The real problem in the US is black on black violence
That appears to be the BIGGEST problem. However you cited a murder rate of 3.5/100k among whites. That is still nearly double the murder rate in Canada, for all people.
 

fuji

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binderman said:
Actually access to firearms makes it safer, not more dangerous
So what is your explanation for the horrendous violent crime rate "enjoyed" by citizens of the United States? Don't tell me it's all the fault of minorities; the murder rate among whites is nearly double the Canadian rate.

I started this thread for this reason--if it isn't all the guns, what is it?
 

Aardvark154

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fuji said:
I imagine the ban was completely ineffective given that handguns are freely available elsewhere in the United States.
In other words as in the U.K. when people want to kill others they find a way to do so: import firearms - and then ban them - we can run through the types as happened in the U.K., use swords, axes etc. . . - ban those, use long knives - ban those, use regular knives now they are considering banning them as well - good luck eating your steak!
 

onthebottom

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fuji said:
That appears to be the BIGGEST problem. However you cited a murder rate of 3.5/100k among whites. That is still nearly double the murder rate in Canada, for all people.
Whites in the US include Hispanics.... there is a tremendous amount of drug related violence among legal and illegal immigrants in the South of the country.... not that I don't think the non-hispanic white US population would have a higher murder rate - we're better shots.

OTB
 

Aardvark154

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fuji said:
So what is your explanation for the horrendous violent crime rate "enjoyed" by citizens of the United States? Don't tell me it's all the fault of minorities; the murder rate among whites is nearly double the Canadian rate.

I started this thread for this reason--if it isn't all the guns, what is it?
Have you every considered regionalism? If not might I suggest Dr. David H. Fischer's Albion's Seed I believe he is spot on.
 

fuji

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Aardvark154 said:
In other words as in the U.K. when people want to kill others they find a way to do so: import firearms - and then ban them - we can run through the types as happened in the U.K., use swords, axes etc. . . - ban those, use long knives - ban those, use regular knives now they are considering banning them as well - good luck eating your steak!
The murder rate in the UK is 2.03. In your opinion what is it they're doing right that the US is doing wrong?
 

onthebottom

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fuji said:
The murder rate in the UK is 2.03. In your opinion what is it they're doing right that the US is doing wrong?
They have the good sense to not boarder Mexico.

OTB
 

viking1965

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onthebottom said:
Handguns have been banned in Washington DC for years (although that was just overturned) yet the murder rate was sky high? Why?

OTB
Because you can very easily buy one in neighboring Virginia.
 

onthebottom

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viking1965 said:
Because you can very easily buy one in neighboring Virginia.
Isn't that the excuse I hear from Canadian's about the US?

OTB
 

Aardvark154

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fuji said:
The murder rate in the UK is 2.03. In your opinion what is it they're doing right that the US is doing wrong?
I love the U.K. but you think the U.K was a better place to live for the middleing and lower sort than the U.S. or Canada from the 18th through the early 20th centuries? Apparently you may not have a) read much about late 17th through mid-19th century British History b) have as long a family history in North America

How is this related to your question, for the same reason that the USMC did not have to spend nearly the time developing marksmen as the British Army and that most USMC Marines could shoot to a higher standard than British Army specialists. The same was true of various units of the CEF that is why the CEF were the shock troops of the British Army during the First World War.
 

Aardvark154

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fuji said:
The murder rate in the UK is 2.03. In your opinion what is it they're doing right that the US is doing wrong?
They regrettably have arrived largely in a police state. When the Government can have the Police raid opposition parliamentary offices, without the slightest justification and in violation of centuries of political development, and senior police officers are so ignorant that they don’t even comprehend what it is they are doing. . .

The less freedom, the more "peace" it is possible for one to have.
 

viking1965

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fuji said:
I think the gun control + socioeconomic factors explain why the murder rate is so high in poor areas.

Then there remains the question of why it is so high in affluent areas. While it is substantially lower than in poor areas, it is still a lot higher than the Canadian rate.

I suspect that in affluent areas it is simply the lack of gun control that leads to the violence.

However maybe somebody has a different explanation.
Which "affluent" areas, which aren't also ironically "poor" areas, are you speaking of?

Big cities like New York, Miami, and L.A. have high crime, but are obviously a mix of rich and poor. Is there rampant gun violence in Palm Springs, Scottsdale, and Aspen that we should know about?


People don't commit crimes simply because they have guns.

The most common motives are love/sex, drugs, and money. Those are the things that lead to the violence. The access to guns just enables it.
 

Aardvark154

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viking1965 said:
The most common motives are love/sex, drugs, and money. Those are the things that lead to the violence. The access to guns just enables it.
Entirely true!

You can argue that firearms enable more killing, but most people don't use automatic weapons. The experience in the U.K. was ban pistols, people who have access use long guns. Restrict long guns (or short cut for those without access to long guns) people use edged weapons, restrict edged weapons and people use blunt objects.

The bottom line is homicidal people are homicidal people.
 

onthebottom

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Aardvark154 said:
Entirely true!

You can argue that firearms enable more killing, but most people don't use automatic weapons. The experience in the U.K. was ban pistols, people who have access use long guns. Restrict long guns (or short cut for those without access to long guns) people use edged weapons, restrict edged weapons and people use blunt objects.

The bottom line is homicidal people are homicidal people.
Perhaps the right response is to require scopes or laser sights to cut down on unintended targets?

OTB
 

fuji

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Aardvark154 said:
The less freedom, the more "peace" it is possible for one to have.
Except that the murder rate in Canada is also roughly 2.0, same as the UK. In fact that is about the average for all Western democracies. It is not the case that the UK is somehow different.

It is the US that is somehow different.
 

Aardvark154

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fuji said:
Except that the murder rate in Canada is also roughly 2.0, same as the UK. In fact that is about the average for all Western democracies. It is not the case that the UK is somehow different.

It is the US that is somehow different.
Peace, Order and Good Government.

Perhaps there is a reason why "Wall Street" is on Wall Street and not on Bloor Street.
 
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