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Biden signs order on abortion access, urges women to vote in November

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Boo, hoo! You didn't get your way. LOL!
Hmm... I can't tell if that's you admitting you know "originalism" is bullshit or not.
I'm going to think the better of you and assume it does.

When the GOP take back the House and Senate in November, will you also be saying "the people have spoken" on the matter of abortion laws?
Probably not, since the odds that more people voted for GOP candidates is slim, even if they win more seats.
The system is really broken.

People only have rights that are enshrined in the Constitution or a democratically enacted law. SCOTUS has just said that the right in question is not found in the constitution. Therefore, it will have be established by law. Or not.
Silly Dutch.
If it is established by law it will be struck down as unconstitutional, you know that.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,526
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It's hard not to be with you.
Given the response here, I guess you were further away from a breakthrough than I thought.



No, because you don't understand the argument we're having.



You keep thinking I'm trying to defend the Democrats from your attacks when I keep pointing out your attacks are meaningless because they are designed in bad faith.



It doesn't matter, because the Democrats are bad and you don't care about this anyway.
No they aren't bad faith. And you are defending them. Once again, they failed. And, due to their refusal to kill the filibuster, will condemn women to to abortion access.

The only bad faith is the Dems lying about who they are, and what they believe in.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
7,023
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Silly Dutch.
If it is established by law it will be struck down as unconstitutional, you know that.
State laws allowing abortions will be struck down? California's law is unconstitutional?

You're making no sense.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,305
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When the GOP take back the House and Senate in November, will you also be saying "the people have spoken" on the matter of abortion laws?

People only have rights that are enshrined in the Constitution or a democratically enacted law. SCOTUS has just said that the right in question is not found in the constitution. Therefore, it will have be established by law. Or not.
So the Republicans always echo how the guns are an established Constitutional right although it is intentionally costing Americans over hundred lives on a daily basis!!
Yet the women's basic rights to choose her own body is a huge issue. Why should that not be part of the Constitution as the protests etc all around the USA finally established Roe v Wade?
Guns were established in the Constitution centuries ago, considering the State of the nation during that era. It is totally out of date and only the criminals and mentally challenged are the ones that are taking full advantage of it in this age. On the other hand when abortions are criminalized in some of the very red states, and those seeking, as well as the providers that offer it could be found to be in total contempt of their laws, while it is a given right in the neighbouring states, sums up the retarded verdict by a very partisan Supreme Court!!
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,305
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Bver. Have the Democrats come out and stated they will drop the filibuster? If not it doesn't matter.
Butler, if the Democrats were certain of passing that Law that Federally Legalizes Abortion then they would have dropped the filibuster. But once again the Republicans have to take 100% responsibility for criminalizing abortion in their states. Unless the voters get out to the polls in order to give the Democrats a sizeable majority in Congress, and the Democrats then do not bother to impose a Bill that Federally legalizes abortion, hence only then will you be correct in this respect!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,526
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Butler, if the Democrats were certain of passing that Law that Federally Legalizes Abortion then they would have dropped the filibuster. But once again the Republicans have to take 100% responsibility for criminalizing abortion in their states. Unless the voters get out to the polls in order to give the Democrats a sizeable majority in Congress, and the Democrats then do not bother to impose a Bill that Federally legalizes abortion, hence only then will you be correct in this respect!!
No, they wont. They actually have Murkowski and Collins onside right now to pass some narrower protections to at least prevent the worst laws from happening. But the Dems said no.

So 10 year old rape victims will just have to cross state lines for now.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
7,023
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So the Republicans always echo how the guns are an established Constitutional right although it is intentionally costing Americans over hundred lives on a daily basis!!
Yet the women's basic rights to choose her own body is a huge issue. Why should that not be part of the Constitution as the protests etc all around the USA finally established Roe v Wade?
Which costs more lives - abortion or shootings? (Guttmacher has a 2020 number for abortions at over 900,000 in the US).

It seems if abortion really was a right in the constitution, it's far more deadly than the right to bear arms! Why didn't the Democrats move to remove that right?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,526
6,321
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Which costs more lives - abortion or shootings? (Guttmacher has a 2020 number for abortions at over 900,000 in the US).

It seems if abortion really was a right in the constitution, it's far more deadly than the right to bear arms! Why didn't the Democrats move to remove that right?
I'm betting on most of those based on morning after pills sales. So really whats the problem?
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,305
8,305
113
No, they wont. They actually have Murkowski and Collins onside right now to pass some narrower protections to at least prevent the worst laws from happening. But the Dems said no.

So 10 year old rape victims will just have to cross state lines for now.
Really?? Can you trust Murkowski and Collins with regards to the "narrower protections" that they are so called and "intending to support"? They voted for those anti-abortion Justices except Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court in spite of having their reservations then. Collins voted for all of them including Kavanaugh, that resulted in a very pro-abortion nominee who lied about his respect for the Roe v Wade as it stood then. They then knew what was going to transpire with the leaks from the Supreme Court and yet voted to prevent the Bill from going through then.

So once again The Republicans have to take 100% responsibility for the 10 year olds rape victims that have to go across State lines for Abortions. Moreover, these same Republicans like Jordan (in a now deleted tweet) call the rape a fake piece of news. Disgusting individual!!
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,305
8,305
113
Which costs more lives - abortion or shootings? (Guttmacher has a 2020 number for abortions at over 900,000 in the US).

It seems if abortion really was a right in the constitution, it's far more deadly than the right to bear arms! Why didn't the Democrats move to remove that right?
There were 20,726 deaths from guns in 2020. These individuals were BORN!! The 900,000 were ones that for some apparent reason were NOT BORN and were still inside the womb. It was the CHOICE and rights of these particular women not to go through with their pregnancy. Their choice and not The Republicans, Supreme Court or your decision for that matter. Yet those 20,000 plus individuals who passed away did not choose to do so. The time will come one day when the USA citizens say enough is enough for sure!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,526
6,321
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Really?? Can you trust Murkowski and Collins with regards to the "narrower protections" that they are so called and "intending to support"? They voted for those anti-abortion Justices except Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court in spite of having their reservations then. Collins voted for all of them including Kavanaugh, that resulted in a very pro-abortion nominee who lied about his respect for the Roe v Wade as it stood then. They then knew what was going to transpire with the leaks from the Supreme Court and yet voted to prevent the Bill from going through then.

So once again The Republicans have to take 100% responsibility for the 10 year olds rape victims that have to go across State lines for Abortions. Moreover, these same Republicans like Jordan (in a now deleted tweet) call the rape a fake piece of news. Disgusting individual!!
Well as the Democrats won't even try I guess we won't know.

And it's Manchin, a Democrat, and Sinema, A Democrat, also stopping it.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,305
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Well as the Democrats won't even try I guess we won't know.

And it's Manchin, a Democrat, and Sinema, A Democrat, also stopping it.
Once again Butler, fake news from you:

House Democrats advance bills to bolster abortion access

House Democrats on Wednesday advanced two bills that seek to bolster abortion rights, less than one month after the Supreme Court issued a ruling that reversed Roe v. Wade.

The House voted 217-204 in a party-line vote on the rule to set up debate for the Women’s Health Protection Act and the Ensuring Access to Abortion Act. Three other bills were also included in the rule.


Seven Republicans and three Democrats did not vote.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) previously said votes would be held on the legislation this week.

The Women’s Health Protection Act, which the House has approved in the past, calls for codifying abortion rights into federal law and strengthening protections that were included in the Roe decision.

The House cleared the legislation in September, but it faced headwinds in the Senate, where Republicans and Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) blocked it twice — first in February and again in May.

The second bill — the Ensuring Access to Abortion Act — seeks to safeguard women who travel to receive an abortion if their state bans the medical procedure. In states where abortion is legal, it would make it unlawful for facilities to restrict access to the procedure for individuals who do not live in that state.

The bill also offers protections for individuals who help others receive an abortion out of state, and safeguards the movement in interstate commerce of abortion drugs approved by the Food and Drug Administration.


If passed by the House both bills are likely to again face obstacles in the Senate, where 60 votes are needed for passage due to the legislative filibuster.

Consideration of the bills comes almost three weeks after the Supreme Court angered many Democrats by overturning Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that established abortion as a constitutional right.

And in a concurring opinion, Justice Clarence Thomas backed overturning Supreme Court decisions that protect access to contraceptives and LGBTQ rights.


During debate on the rule Wednesday, Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon (D-Pa.) said the pair of abortion bills are a “critical part” of giving families the freedom to make decisions.

“These attacks on our essential American freedoms cannot stand. Our families and freedoms are on the line and it’s more important than ever that we fight to protect and expand reproductive freedom,” she said on the House floor.

“The bills we are considering today are a critical part of the fight for a world where all Americans, no matter who they are, where they live, or what they believe, have the freedom to make their own decisions about if and when to start or grow a family,” she added.


Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who practiced medicine as an obstetrician/gynecologist before being elected to Congress in 2002, spoke about his experience as a doctor in remarks opposing the rule.

“My belief in the right to life has influenced my professional career for much longer than my time in Congress. And I will remain committed to that,” Burgess said on the House floor during debate.

“After a lifetime dedicated to pro-life work, there is no question it is just the right thing to do. You always err on the side of life, you always give life a chance,” he added.


The rule under consideration on Wednesday also set up debate for the Active Shooter Alert Act, the Honoring our PACT Act and the National Defense Authorization Act.


So let's see where Murkowski and Collins stand on this particular Bill, and their so called Pro-Abortion stand!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,526
6,321
113
Once again Butler, fake news from you:

House Democrats advance bills to bolster abortion access

House Democrats on Wednesday advanced two bills that seek to bolster abortion rights, less than one month after the Supreme Court issued a ruling that reversed Roe v. Wade.

The House voted 217-204 in a party-line vote on the rule to set up debate for the Women’s Health Protection Act and the Ensuring Access to Abortion Act. Three other bills were also included in the rule.


Seven Republicans and three Democrats did not vote.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) previously said votes would be held on the legislation this week.

The Women’s Health Protection Act, which the House has approved in the past, calls for codifying abortion rights into federal law and strengthening protections that were included in the Roe decision.

The House cleared the legislation in September, but it faced headwinds in the Senate, where Republicans and Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) blocked it twice — first in February and again in May.

The second bill — the Ensuring Access to Abortion Act — seeks to safeguard women who travel to receive an abortion if their state bans the medical procedure. In states where abortion is legal, it would make it unlawful for facilities to restrict access to the procedure for individuals who do not live in that state.

The bill also offers protections for individuals who help others receive an abortion out of state, and safeguards the movement in interstate commerce of abortion drugs approved by the Food and Drug Administration.


If passed by the House both bills are likely to again face obstacles in the Senate, where 60 votes are needed for passage due to the legislative filibuster.

Consideration of the bills comes almost three weeks after the Supreme Court angered many Democrats by overturning Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that established abortion as a constitutional right.

And in a concurring opinion, Justice Clarence Thomas backed overturning Supreme Court decisions that protect access to contraceptives and LGBTQ rights.


During debate on the rule Wednesday, Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon (D-Pa.) said the pair of abortion bills are a “critical part” of giving families the freedom to make decisions.

“These attacks on our essential American freedoms cannot stand. Our families and freedoms are on the line and it’s more important than ever that we fight to protect and expand reproductive freedom,” she said on the House floor.

“The bills we are considering today are a critical part of the fight for a world where all Americans, no matter who they are, where they live, or what they believe, have the freedom to make their own decisions about if and when to start or grow a family,” she added.


Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who practiced medicine as an obstetrician/gynecologist before being elected to Congress in 2002, spoke about his experience as a doctor in remarks opposing the rule.

“My belief in the right to life has influenced my professional career for much longer than my time in Congress. And I will remain committed to that,” Burgess said on the House floor during debate.

“After a lifetime dedicated to pro-life work, there is no question it is just the right thing to do. You always err on the side of life, you always give life a chance,” he added.


The rule under consideration on Wednesday also set up debate for the Active Shooter Alert Act, the Honoring our PACT Act and the National Defense Authorization Act.


So let's see where Murkowski and Collins stand on this particular Bill, and their so called Pro-Abortion stand!!
Yup. Too bad a Democrat is blocking it. And as I said. The Two GOP Senators would support a more limited bill at this time. But Pelisi would rather play fundraising politics than actually get something passed. She knew it would fail.

And the Filibuster still exists. Its all just a show. The only fake news here is you think this actually means something. When nothing was done.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,305
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Well as the Democrats won't even try I guess we won't know.

And it's Manchin, a Democrat, and Sinema, A Democrat, also stopping it.
That is why the Electorate have to vote more Democratic members in Congress. Sinema voted with the Democrats in this respect. But Manchin is actually more like a Republican in Democrat colours who is doing his best to screw the Democrats!!

But once again take a look at Post # 93!!
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
30,305
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Yup. Too bad a Democrat is blocking it. And as I said. The Two GOP Senators would support a more limited bill at this time. But Pelisi would rather play fundraising politics than actually get something passed. She knew it would fail.

And the Filibuster still exists. Its all just a show. The only fake news here is you think this actually means something. When nothing was done.
Now once again you are changing your story when your allegations were proven to be false. The two GOP Senators are just playing games with their electorate by sitting on the fence and voting so as to enhance their own prospects. The filibuster does not matter if they cannot get the 50 / 50 votes with the VP breaking the deadlock. We will have to see whether they can sway Manchin, as there is no issue with Sinema in this respect. Moscow Mitch wants to throw all the roadblocks for his own end and his fundraising campaign just like the rest of the Republicans!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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That is why the Electorate have to vote more Democratic members in Congress. Sinema voted with the Democrats in this respect. But Manchin is actually more like a Republican in Democrat colours who is doing his best to screw the Democrats!!

But once again take a look at Post # 93!!
Right. Yet they keep him as a Democrat. Nice convenient excuse to do nothing. Oh its all his fault! Or her fault! But they still keep them in the party.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,526
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Now once again you are changing your story when your allegations were proven to be false. The two GOP Senators are just playing games with their electorate by sitting on the fence and voting so as to enhance their own prospects. The filibuster does not matter if they cannot get the 50 / 50 votes with the VP breaking the deadlock. We will have to see whether they can sway Manchin, as there is no issue with Sinema in this respect. Moscow Mitch wants to throw all the roadblocks for his own end and his fundraising campaign just like the rest of the Republicans!!
We don't know because the Dems turned them down without getting a vote. But then again when they can't even get their own to come together why would there be any chance of them reaching across the aisle? Far better to send out fundraising letters than actually try to do something. Right?

Tits on a bull.....
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
7,023
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There were 20,726 deaths from guns in 2020. These individuals were BORN!! The 900,000 were ones that for some apparent reason were NOT BORN and were still inside the womb. It was the CHOICE and rights of these particular women not to go through with their pregnancy. Their choice and not The Republicans, Supreme Court or your decision for that matter. Yet those 20,000 plus individuals who passed away did not choose to do so. The time will come one day when the USA citizens say enough is enough for sure!!
It doesn't matter how many times you shriek "it's a woman's right to choose" it won't make it any more true. The issue is "when does a fetus become recognized as a human being?". We don't allow people to make an individual choice to kill other human beings, and we allow EVERYONE to determine how murder laws should be defined through the democratic process. If you want to engage the anti-abortion argument, you have to address the matter of when a fetus becomes a human who is deserving of protection from murder.

You don't really believe in democratically determined rights, do you?
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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It doesn't matter how many times you shriek "it's a woman's right to choose" it won't make it any more true. The issue is "when does a fetus become recognized as a human being?". We don't allow people to make an individual choice to kill other human beings, and we allow EVERYONE to determine how murder laws should be defined through the democratic process. If you want to engage the anti-abortion argument, you have to address the matter of when a fetus becomes a human who is deserving of protection from murder.

You don't really believe in democratically determined rights, do you?
You do not allow people to kill other human beings and yet we are seeing guns that easily kill multiple human beings being sold with practically no restrictions in many states.
Now if the mother's life is going to be compromised during that pregnancy and the only solution is to terminate the pregnancy, then it is considered a crime especially if both the fetus and the mother pass away. So your take is, it is fine if the mother passes away with the fetus and it will be crime if she is kept alive by terminating the pregnancy. Wow!!
What about this ten year old who has been raped and has to go out of State to terminate her pregnancy? Yet some Fundamentalist groups state that the ten year old should have the baby. Do you agree with that statement? Are they democratically determined rights according to your dictionary?
 
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