seems to me the teachers made an offer and no counter offer was made. i would laugh if what they got (the current deal) was the counter offer. so they were greedy, just like 99% of the population. i can't fault them for that. i can fault them for doing a shitty job when they are at work but not the deal they got. i know for a fact that i would love to have a deal like that.
Teachers Taking "Sick Days" - Anyone want to defend this one?
- Thread starter TeasePlease
- Start date
That's not the issue. The issue is that once a deal is struck they find ways to abuse what was agreed to. There is no need to take sick days if you are not sick, especially when you are leaving kids with no one in the classroom. Is it a coincidence that they are calling in sick on Fridays and Mondays? I give my employees paid sick days. If they abuse them, they will need to bring me a doctor's note. They do it again and I fire them. Capiche? Teachers should be no different. Bottom line is that these people are not fit to be educating or guiding our children.
I see your point but the deal on sick days was not to "use them all" That is not the intended purpose of the sick days. It was intended in good faith and they are abusing it. Hands down.
EDIT: HAHAHA, I agree DIRK. We seems to have posted at the same time.
I'm sure this has been gone over but:
The old contract gave teachers incentive to not call in sick. A teacher who was somewhat sick might choose to go in to work at less than 100% to save the days for when they really needed them. Under the new contract, there is no incentive so a somewhat sick teacher might as well stay home and get better.
I'm sure there's some that abuse the system but the same happens everywhere. How many private sector people spend summer days on the golf course?
The old contract gave teachers incentive to not call in sick. A teacher who was somewhat sick might choose to go in to work at less than 100% to save the days for when they really needed them. Under the new contract, there is no incentive so a somewhat sick teacher might as well stay home and get better.
I'm sure there's some that abuse the system but the same happens everywhere. How many private sector people spend summer days on the golf course?
The states maybe. Up here, teachers make decent money. Not spectacular for the job it entails but it's not lower middle class.
For a while I spent a few hours a week coaching motivated youth in a sport they wanted to play and they were a handful. I couldn't imagine the kind of crap that teachers have to put up with trying to teach today's generation of entitled youth supported by their know-it-all parents.
if the wording says they can do it then human nature is to do it. i worked for a place that offered employee's 3 sick days a year and a total of 7 per year total and you couldn't transfer them over. i am not saying they deserve it at all. i am saying they got something given to them and they are going to use and are fully entitled to do so. i do not agree with it and i am not a fan of it if it starts to affect the education our kids get but they got something given to them and they are taking advantage of it.
next time the contract comes up i hope they change the wording in it.
to put it in perspective for me in every job i have ever had (until the most recent) i never called in sick or showed up late up to and including the point where i am not separated and no longer live with my kids. i put my job first every time. these people are from a different cut of the cloth and they are taking advantage of something that was given to them. it's all in the wording and they got the good end of the wording.
so while i agree with what you are saying. they are fully entitled to take those days and we can't really say shit about it.
What I am saying is that everyone seems to want to make moral judgements on the legal actions of others, without exposing their own actions to the same judgements. If I'm eating steak I'm hardly in a position to judge the butcher. In essence this is the entire thread; a moral judgement on a legal, but unpopular, action. There is no "fraud" because no definition of what is acceptable to use a sick day exists. No laws have been broken. The entire argument is whether the teachers are right to use a benefit they are entitled to.
My belief is that no one is qualified to judge the morality of another's actions. Legality, yes. Morality no. I merely tried to make what should be obvious, even more obvious, by pointing out the inherent hypocrisy of moral judgements by those engaged in, what many consider, immoral activities.
the most intelligent posting in this thread, the rest is either neo con nonsense or emotionally charged ones by people who think that they were students once so that gives them the right to tell people about how to teach or parents griping about "lazy teachers"
Aside from accepting the pathetic victim mentality, you also presume to know the backgrounds and knowledge of anonymous posters?
One of the best features of our system (and I mean the TDSB/TCSDB) is that remains a meritocracy. Those showing initiative and those who perform well have ample opportunity for promotion.
Private sector people are not paid by, or reliant on, the taxpayer. I resent my earnings, which are legally stolen from me by all levels of government, being abused in this manner. Teachers are paid well for the work they do. They have benefits and time off superior to most. Their abuse of the taxpayer is deplorable. If they don't like it, they can get the fuck out, there is a backlog of teacher graduates looking for work.
The posting comes from someone in the U.S. dipshit. The experience here is quite different. Now stop posting on terb and get back to teaching your fucking class!
I understand what you are saying and it makes sense BUT negotiators are not negotiating with THEIR OWN MONEY. This is key. Teachers, civil servants, gov't workers etc are not paid through company obtained earnings. Thus accountability is seriously erroded in the process. They are paid by the taxpayer (you and I). It is very easy to bargain using someone else's money (taxpayers) and these group of people holding these goverment paid professions make up a large voter base. Bribing people with money that is not theirs is also very easy.
I own a company, if members of the public agreed to pay my employees (or subsidize a large percentage of what they are paid) it would be easy for me to negotiate large pay raises, banked sick days, cadillac pension plans, gucci benefit plans etc. This is, in essence, bargaining in Ontario. A flawed process from the get go but good for those that benefit. I would argue that the benefits are not proportional to the taxpayers not plugged into a gov't paid profession.....
for $83K a year and the responsibility to teach kids right vs. wrong, it damn well should be relevant
Perhaps you could not, however it does not take too long to realize there are many exceptional intelligent and very capable people on Terb.
I know a number of teachers, some are sharp, but on average, they are not exceptional and none merit the $83K / year or the perks.
They cold be replaced on mass at a much more cost efficient level
So easy to complain?
Yes it is when a special interest group is screwing over the taxpayer and there is talk of increased taxes
The ont govt is broke and running bigger and bigger deficits
1/3 of the expenditures are on education
Teachers make an average of $83K a year for probably 40 to 60% of the time most taxpayers work
That salary is in the top 10% of all employees in Canada and quite close to the top 5%
They get the deal of the century and then cry like they were shot when reality dictates an excessive perk be revoked
And you say there is no waste?
Replace the entire lot of them & let them see what real wok is like
