Vaughan Spa

New labour laws - $15/hour min - 3 weeks vacation

Musketeer

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2002
7,562
294
83
69
Mississauga
Not a moment too soon.
I agree, the naysayers also said "not a good idea, nor not good for the economy" when child labour in the mines was banned.

Giving people a little more money in the pocket can only help the economy as they will have a little more money to spend and help stimulate the economy.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,107
1,292
113
this solution seems so obvious that I am prepared to believe that it has been considered and rejected because public schools producing low IQ low income taxpayers makes more sense for the elite. I am not at all into conspiracy theories but seriously, how the fuck schools don't explain to you most basic shit like what the economics of an individual or a small family should be, how to qualify for a mortgage or even rent, etc.
Why women who go for masters and PhD in gender studies are not told that statistically they will more likely end up in sex industry than become professors? Why do we need to learn shit from smart friends rather than from schools?
I think rudimentary financial education is being rolled out, but only in a pilot project for now in grade 10. It's a start, but needs to become standard and has to start in grade school if possible.
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,558
6,763
113
Invest in financial education in schools to reduce the number of students spending big money on useless programs and end up stuck with low wage jobs.
Or, even better, push more students into trades. In my field, people with zero education start at over $30/h. And all you have to put up with is a bit of discomfort since it's an outside work. Most of education is done through the job and some union sponsored courses and the sky is the limit.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,107
1,292
113
This is a pure vote grab. How many years in power and suddenly a drastic step to raise minimum wage and benefits. No cost to the Liberals since they get no votes from business owners anyway and they knew that.
What will happen over the next few years will be increased mechanization and replacement of $15 to 17$ human workers with robots and the like. The more expensive the employee, particularly the one with low skills, the more likely the employer will invest in technology. And many businesses will just close.
Take the example of the supermarket. Lots of cashiers and shelf stockers. They already have the self operated checkout where 4 checkouts are supervised by one human. Lots of people seem to prefer the human cashier but that could change in a hurry if food prices have to go up 10% because of increased wages and benefits. What if the supermarket offered a discount, say 5% to those who use self checkout, increase the number of self checkout kiosks, let 75% of their lowest paid staff go and hold the line on the price increases? I believe modern warehouses are largely operated by robots. What if supermarkets were able to stock shelves using a system of robots?
If raising the minimum wage were to solve any social or economic problems, then why not raise it to $25. If raising the minimum wage and benefits worked then the Soviet Union would still be around.
The economic and social problems are real but it is not up to the employer to solve them
It's a tactical move for the Liberals to enact the minimum wage law until after the election. Should they get defeated, the next government will have inherited a hot potato. If that government cancels, changes or botches the implementation, the Libs have it as ammo next time.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,107
1,292
113
Or, even better, push more students into trades. In my field, people with zero education start at over $30/h. And all you have to put up with is a bit of discomfort since it's an outside work. Most of education is done through the job and some union sponsored courses and the sky is the limit.
The trades have definitely been hurting for much too long. Companies also need professional sales (especially B2B) people, but too many grads shun away from it because it has a negative perception. The thing is, sales skills are very important even if you're not actually selling products or services to people or businesses. Sales is one of those things that still demands a human touch to a certain extent. Technology helps the process, but is difficult to replace it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sales-jobs-for-young-canadians-1.4039537
 
O

OnTheWayOut

So far McD's is about the only one with kiosks for ordering, get used to the idea of more kiosks and less counters at more places. In the US Subway is remodeling their stores and putting in kiosks for ordering, I'm sure that will be happening here as well. More wages & less employees = new reality.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,064
1
0
You take things too literally
So what is it then frank,...Joe,...or Joes.

One is singular,...the other means more than one,...to help you out.

Or is it that only guys named Joe,... break into houses,...or Joe is code for all of the people who break into houses,...???
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,664
21
38
I've resisted automation for many years. I like to employ people but it is getting harder and harder to do so. My business is not seeing record profits, we are doing ok, but profit keeps dropping year after year and we can only raise prices every so often. I pay minimum wage to a few people, but I hear other staff expects a raise as they will be closer to minimum wage if this increase takes effect. That's not going to happen. I do give 3 weeks after 5 years already and 4 weeks after 10 years. So no issues here.
So, option 1 is to invest in better production equipment thus reducing the need for staff. No new hires and not replace anyone that leaves. Equipment is paid off in 4 to 5 years.
Or Option 2: Move out of province, or even to Buffalo, where energy costs, rent, taxes, and most everything else are lower.
As an employer, I can tell you one thing, raising minimum wage will have a negative effect on my small company hiring anyone.
If I were you, I'd do both - move where costs are lower AND invest the difference in automation. You will set yourself up nicely for the long run.

I didn't need to relocate my business because I was able to outsource most of the work - Ukraine, India, Russia. It made all the financial sense in the world. Never would have succeeded paying Canadian or American wages.
 

Smallcock

Active member
Jun 5, 2009
13,664
21
38
So far McD's is about the only one with kiosks for ordering, get used to the idea of more kiosks and less counters at more places. In the US Subway is remodeling their stores and putting in kiosks for ordering, I'm sure that will be happening here as well. More wages & less employees = new reality.
My only gripe with these machines is how dirty they are. They need to invent self cleaning kiosks, so that you're not eating germs from a thousand different people's filthy fingers.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,107
1,292
113
My only gripe with these machines is how dirty they are. They need to invent self cleaning kiosks, so that you're not eating germs from a thousand different people's filthy fingers.
I've had issues where the order number they give you when you pay does not match the number they yell out. That and the paper receipts seem to get stuck in the slots. Not life shattering by a long shot, but just some quirks for them to iron out.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,107
1,292
113
So far McD's is about the only one with kiosks for ordering, get used to the idea of more kiosks and less counters at more places. In the US Subway is remodeling their stores and putting in kiosks for ordering, I'm sure that will be happening here as well. More wages & less employees = new reality.
Apparently, you can order from Starbucks using their app so there's no need (nor room in the store) for kiosks. McD's has an app and I think they're adding online ordering very soon. They also need to tweak the animations on the screen because it can be quite time consuming and confusing to figure out which button to press.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,733
105
63
Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
I've resisted automation for many years. I like to employ people but it is getting harder and harder to do so. My business is not seeing record profits, we are doing ok, but profit keeps dropping year after year and we can only raise prices every so often. I pay minimum wage to a few people, but I hear other staff expects a raise as they will be closer to minimum wage if this increase takes effect. That's not going to happen. I do give 3 weeks after 5 years already and 4 weeks after 10 years. So no issues here.
So, option 1 is to invest in better production equipment thus reducing the need for staff. No new hires and not replace anyone that leaves. Equipment is paid off in 4 to 5 years.
Or Option 2: Move out of province, or even to Buffalo, where energy costs, rent, taxes, and most everything else are lower.
As an employer, I can tell you one thing, raising minimum wage will have a negative effect on my small company hiring anyone.
Go to Buffalo, they need all the help they can get.
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
17,870
242
63
So what is it then frank,...Joe,...or Joes.

One is singular,...the other means more than one,...to help you out.

Or is it that only guys named Joe,... break into houses,...or Joe is code for all of the people who break into houses,...???
Does the phrase "tom, dick and harry" really just apply to men with those three names?
 

icespot

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2005
1,688
76
48
I am and always will be a socialist, it hurts to be one, but love our country and way of life.

However, this half baked idea will do absolutely nothing to raise the standard of living for those it is supposed to benefit.

You don't need a PHD in economics, finance, accounting etc. To know that the cost will be passed along to the consumer. Companies will have to rethink their HR needs to lower cost and increase profits.
A socialist needs a strong free market economy, or it doesn't work. The examples have already been listed, Venezuela, Cuba, communist Russia.

If the Liberals really want to make things better, they should give workers better tools to negotiate their employment contract with their employers on a case by case. Not all businesses are equally profitable. The way it should work is the higher the profits, the better your benefits.

Starting with the fucking banks, billions in net profits, made from money they borrowed from the Government in the first place.

As for MacDonald's the net profits franchises have been receiving on average is 3%, not the case with the corporation i am sure.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,064
1
0
Does the phrase "tom, dick and harry" really just apply to men with those three names?
So now you are up to three guys who could break into your house,...

And once again,... you haven't answered,...do any of these three guys actually want to have a job at $15/HR,...???
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,107
1,292
113
If those restaurants raise their Burgers/sandwiches price more customers would save money by cooking or preparing their sandwiches and lunch boxes at home.I think this is how it used to be back in the 40's before those fast food restaurants. Much healthier and save you money.
Some people will certainly resort to brown bagging their lunch and cooking at home more. I think there will always be a certain percentage of people that will continue to buy lunch because it's convenient. When you commute for hours on end every day there's almost no time to plan ahead and prepare extra food for the next day.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,068
0
0
If you ask any unbiased economist who isn't a hack, they will not tell you that. They will tell you that Yes there will be a negative impact on jobs/hiring (particularly by small businesses), but there will also be a positive impact on the economy from putting more money into low income people who will end up spending all that money back into the economy (vs. the wealthy who have a greater tendency to squirrel it away into savings).

A real economist who isn't in the pocket of a particular faction will tell you that what the net impact will be is very difficult to say and depends to a large extent on your view of how people will behave.

If economists could predict the net outcome with the certainty with which you seem to believe they have, our economy would be a utopia.
Your analysis is sound. However, it shouldn't be just guesswork. All they have to do is look at Alberta, which recently raised minimum wages significantly. Not sure if all the results are in yet. I spend a fair bit of time there. In speaking with many businesses who employ minimum wage workers, ALL of them told me that they would be responding to higher minimum wages by reducing staff or reducing hours. We'll have to wait some time for the hard evidence to be collected. Maybe Ontario should wait.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,107
1,292
113
If the Liberals really want to make things better, they should give workers better tools to negotiate their employment contract with their employers on a case by case. Not all businesses are equally profitable. The way it should work is the higher the profits, the better your benefits.
All employees especially students need to be better educated on what their employment rights are and how to exercise them. Many people have not even heard of the Employment Standards Act and worse are afraid of filing a complaint for fear of discipline or termination. We're just left to figure this stuff on our own and often find out after it's too late.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,068
0
0
The aspect of the new legislation which seems most ill conceived to me is pay parity between part time and full time workers. I'm absolutely sure where this is coming from. Unions feel that it is much harder to organize part time workers (given their itinerant nature, and the fact that this group tends to be younger (identifying less with union membership)). Unions are therefore strongly opposed to the ongoing transition to part time employment across the economy.

Further, employers tend to require a higher degree of responsibility from their full time staff, as well as a broader range of capability. Part time workers lack the perspective to see this. They think - if Fred unloads the trucks, and I unload the trucks - not understanding that it's Fred who is also responsible to sign off on the way bills, etc. The interesting thing on this issue is that unions have AGREED with the position of employers on this issue repeatedly! You'd be hard pressed to find collective agreements where FT workers do not receive greater compensation (in wages, or otherwise) compared to part timers.

This aspect is wrong headed conceptually, and is entirely motivated by unions looking to discourage employers from shifting to a part time workforce.
 
Toronto Escorts